Timing of legal paperwork

[wesleyowen 0]

Anyone who knows, please answer.

 

I am planning on getting on Tromix's wait list on October 1 for a SBS Saiga 12. I imagine that I should begin the paperwork now. Besides starting the paperwork with my local FFL who can sell me NFA items, is there anything else regarding the paperwork that I need to know about when dealing with Tromix. What if I supply my own S-12? What if I get a S-12 supplied by Tromix?

 

 

Thanks,

Triathlon

[Knuckle Dragger 0]

Anyone who knows, please answer.

 

I am planning on getting on Tromix's wait list on October 1 for a SBS Saiga 12. I imagine that I should begin the paperwork now. Besides starting the paperwork with my local FFL who can sell me NFA items, is there anything else regarding the paperwork that I need to know about when dealing with Tromix. What if I supply my own S-12? What if I get a S-12 supplied by Tromix?

 

 

Thanks,

Triathlon

 

 

 

I'm not an authority on the subject-but I can tell you that you'll need the serial number of the firearm to begin the paperwork. To get an early start will mean obtaining the shotgun and submitting it at a later date.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/...ist/nfa_faq.txt

NFA FAQ List

[sudaevpps43 31]

Anyone who knows, please answer.

 

I am planning on getting on Tromix's wait list on October 1 for a SBS Saiga 12. I imagine that I should begin the paperwork now. Besides starting the paperwork with my local FFL who can sell me NFA items, is there anything else regarding the paperwork that I need to know about when dealing with Tromix. What if I supply my own S-12? What if I get a S-12 supplied by Tromix?

 

 

Thanks,

Triathlon

 

As Knuckle Dragger mentioned you need the serial number of the shotgun before you can start the NFA paperwork. Subguns.com has a list of NFA firearms dealers by state (http://www.subguns.com/c2c3/c3state.htm).

 

If you are going through a NFA firearms dealer, which is a firearms dealer that is a class 3 Special Occupational Tax (SOT) holder, not a regular FFL holder, you actually won't deal with Tromix at all as far as the NFA transfer process goes. It is the class 3 dealer who would be ordering and receiving the SBS from Tromix, through a Form 3 tax exempt NFA firearm transfer between SOT licensee holders (Tromix is a class 2 SOT holder, which means they are licensed to manufacture NFA firearms, as well as deal in them). Once the class 3 dealer receives the SBS from Tromix, you will then deal with the class 3 dealer for the NFA transfer of the SBS from them to you, by filling out and sending in a Form 4 to the ATF (along with everything that goes along with it, which is the CLEO signoff, the two fingerprint forms, the two passport photos, the compliance form, and of course the $200 check to pay the NFA tax). Once you get the NFA tax stamp from the ATF, you then go to the class 3 dealer, fill out the usual 4473 form and go through the usual NICS check, and then you can take the SBS home (of course class 3 dealers charge a fee for doing an NFA transfer, and most of them also require full payment upfront for the NFA firearm itself, just in case if for some reason the ATF doesn't approve your Form 4 and they get stuck with it).

 

If you will be supplying your own shotgun for Tromix to convert to an SBS, then instead of a Form 4 you fill out and send in a Form 1 to the ATF. When filling out the Form 1 you of course use your shotgun's serial number, and as with a Form 4 you will also need a CLEO signoff, two fingerprint forms, two passport photos, a compliance form, and a $200 check to send in with it. Once you get the NFA tax stamp from the ATF, you must make sure you have the engraving (your name plus your city and state of residence) done on your shotgun's receiver before sending the shotgun to Tromix. You will also have to fill out and send in another NFA form, Form 5, before actually shipping the shotgun to Tromix. The Form 5 is really just to cover your backside with the ATF, so you have documentation showing that the SBS wasn't transferred improperly at any point. You don't pay any tax on a Form 5 and the ATF usually processes and approves these very quickly, since its just for sending your SBS to a gunsmith for servicing, not a transfer of its ownership to someone else. After Tromix has finished with your shotgun, and after filling out and sending in their own Form 5 to the ATF, the SBS will be shipped directly back to you from Tromix.

 

Of course you can only start on the NFA process before Tromix resumes accepting orders on October 1st, if you buy a standard Saiga 12 and Form 1 it before then.

Edited August 23, 2008 by Frogfoot

[Ckage83 0]

Anyone who knows, please answer.

 

I am planning on getting on Tromix's wait list on October 1 for a SBS Saiga 12. I imagine that I should begin the paperwork now. Besides starting the paperwork with my local FFL who can sell me NFA items, is there anything else regarding the paperwork that I need to know about when dealing with Tromix. What if I supply my own S-12? What if I get a S-12 supplied by Tromix?

 

 

Thanks,

Triathlon

 

As Knuckle Dragger mentioned you need the serial number of the shotgun before you can start the NFA paperwork. Subguns.com has a list of NFA firearms dealers by state (http://www.subguns.com/c2c3/c3state.htm).

 

If you are going through a NFA firearms dealer, which is a firearms dealer that is a class 3 Special Occupational Tax (SOT) holder, not a regular FFL holder, you actually won't deal with Tromix at all as far as the NFA transfer process goes. It is the class 3 dealer who would be ordering and receiving the SBS from Tromix, through a Form 3 tax exempt NFA firearm transfer between SOT licensee holders (Tromix is a class 2 SOT holder, which means they are licensed to manufacture NFA firearms, as well as deal in them). Once the class 3 dealer receives the SBS from Tromix, you will then deal with the class 3 dealer for the NFA transfer of the SBS from them to you, by filling out and sending in a Form 4 to the ATF (along with everything that goes along with it, which is the CLEO signoff, the two fingerprint forms, the two passport photos, the compliance form, and of course the $200 check to pay the NFA tax). Once you get the NFA tax stamp from the ATF, you then go to the class 3 dealer, fill out the usual 4473 form and go through the usual NICS check, and then you can take the SBS home (of course class 3 dealers charge a fee for doing an NFA transfer, and most of them also require full payment upfront for the NFA firearm itself, just in case if for some reason the ATF doesn't approve your Form 4 and they get stuck with it).

 

If you will be supplying your own shotgun for Tromix to convert to an SBS, then instead of a Form 4 you fill out and send in a Form 1 to the ATF. When filling out the Form 1 you of course use your shotgun's serial number, and as with a Form 4 you will also need a CLEO signoff, two fingerprint forms, two passport photos, a compliance form, and a $200 check to send in with it. Once you get the NFA tax stamp from the ATF, you must make sure you have the engraving (your name plus your city and state of residence) done on your shotgun's receiver before sending the shotgun to Tromix. You will also have to fill out and send in another NFA form, Form 5, before actually shipping the shotgun to Tromix. The Form 5 is really just to cover your backside with the ATF, so you have documentation showing that the SBS wasn't transferred improperly at any point. You don't pay any tax on a Form 5 and the ATF usually processes and approves these very quickly, since its just for sending your SBS to a gunsmith for servicing, not a transfer of its ownership to someone else. After Tromix has finished with your shotgun, and after filling out and sending in their own Form 5 to the ATF, the SBS will be shipped directly back to you from Tromix.

 

Of course you can only start on the NFA process before Tromix resumes accepting orders on October 1st, if you buy a standard Saiga 12 and Form 1 it before then.

 

So I have a saiga 12 that I picked up today. And I intend to send it to tromix right away (Oct. 1st). Do I need to form 1 it now? and can I send it to tromix while the paperwork is pending and have tromix send it back to my ffl/sot ?

 

I've done SBRs on my own, and I use the trust method. But I've neve had a SBS done by someone else. Can someone please post the acceptable steps?

[righttoown 0]

I beleive Oct 1 was just to get on the list. I don't think they will won't you to send your gun until your number comes up which could possible be up to a year.

[sudaevpps43 31]

....and can I send it to tromix while the paperwork is pending and have tromix send it back to my ffl/sot?

 

It sounds like you may be mixing up form 1 with form 3, which is used just for NFA firearm transfers between SOT holders. An SOT holder would only be receiving an SBS from Tromix if they (not you) ordered it from Tromix. In that case Tromix would just use a regular Saiga 12 shotgun from their own stock to make the SBS, and then the SBS would be transferred from Tromix to the other SOT holder through a form 3 (an individual purchasing the SBS from this SOT holder would then go through the NFA transfer process using a form 4). In your case though it is you, not Tromix, who is the owner of the Saiga 12 that will be made into an SBS. So you would form 1 it, and after receiving the NFA tax stamp from the ATF you would then ship it directly to Tromix for their service, and then Tromix would ship it directly back to you. There is no need for the return shipping to go through an FFL holder or another SOT holder, since you already have the NFA tax stamp and are the legal owner of the NFA firearm as far as the ATF is concerned, and since temporarily sending an NFA firearm to a gunsmith for service or repair is not considered by the ATF to be a transfer under the terms of the NFA (see: http://www.atf.gov/press/breakingnews/fy01...0nfarepair.htm)

 

So I have a saiga 12 that I picked up today. And I intend to send it to tromix right away (Oct. 1st). Do I need to form 1 it now?

 

Since there isn't any disadvantage to getting the NFA tax stamp as soon as possible, you might as well start the form 1 process now. Assuming you get your order in to Tromix between October 1st and whenever Tromix stops accepting orders again (which will probably be no more than about a week later), only Tromix can tell you when they would want you to ship them your shotgun (my guess is Tromix would not want you to ship them the shotgun until they begin to get close to your number on their order list, and also of course not until after you receive your NFA tax stamp and have had the engraving done on your shotgun's receiver).

 

I've done SBRs on my own, and I use the trust method. But I've never had a SBS done by someone else. Can someone please post the acceptable steps?

 

It will be identical to the form 1 process you did with your SBRs, except of course that in this case (after you receive your NFA tax stamp from the ATF) there is the extra step of then sending your newly NFA registered firearm to Tromix for gunsmithing services, for which as was stated in the ATF letter (http://www.atf.gov/press/breakingnews/fy01/021800nfarepair.htm) mentioned above, the ATF recommends you fill out and send in a form 5.

[Ckage83 0]

....and can I send it to tromix while the paperwork is pending and have tromix send it back to my ffl/sot?

 

It sounds like you may be mixing up form 1 with form 3, which is used just for NFA firearm transfers between SOT holders. An SOT holder would only be receiving an SBS from Tromix if they (not you) ordered it from Tromix. In that case Tromix would just use a regular Saiga 12 shotgun from their own stock to make the SBS, and then the SBS would be transferred from Tromix to the other SOT holder through a form 3 (an individual purchasing the SBS from this SOT holder would then go through the NFA transfer process using a form 4). In your case though it is you, not Tromix, who is the owner of the Saiga 12 that will be made into an SBS. So you would form 1 it, and after receiving the NFA tax stamp from the ATF you would then ship it directly to Tromix for their service, and then Tromix would ship it directly back to you. There is no need for the return shipping to go through an FFL holder or another SOT holder, since you already have the NFA tax stamp and are the legal owner of the NFA firearm as far as the ATF is concerned, and since temporarily sending an NFA firearm to a gunsmith for service or repair is not considered by the ATF to be a transfer under the terms of the NFA (see: http://www.atf.gov/press/breakingnews/fy01...0nfarepair.htm)

 

So I have a saiga 12 that I picked up today. And I intend to send it to tromix right away (Oct. 1st). Do I need to form 1 it now?

 

Since there isn't any disadvantage to getting the NFA tax stamp as soon as possible, you might as well start the form 1 process now. Assuming you get your order in to Tromix between October 1st and whenever Tromix stops accepting orders again (which will probably be no more than about a week later), only Tromix can tell you when they would want you to ship them your shotgun (my guess is Tromix would not want you to ship them the shotgun until they begin to get close to your number on their order list, and also of course not until after you receive your NFA tax stamp and have had the engraving done on your shotgun's receiver).

 

I've done SBRs on my own, and I use the trust method. But I've never had a SBS done by someone else. Can someone please post the acceptable steps?

 

It will be identical to the form 1 process you did with your SBRs, except of course that in this case (after you receive your NFA tax stamp from the ATF) there is the extra step of then sending your newly NFA registered firearm to Tromix for gunsmithing services, for which as was stated in the ATF letter (http://www.atf.gov/press/breakingnews/fy01/021800nfarepair.htm) mentioned above, the ATF recommends you fill out and send in a form 5.

 

 

Alright, I got it down. Right now getting paperwork approved through the ATF is taking forever. I've been waiting on a suppressor to clear for 3 months now. I'm going to hook up with my guy today and get form1 off to them. Man the wife is pissed that I'm dropping this much money right now, especially after we jut bought heating oil Ah well, I need feed my addiction.

Thanks man

[Knuckle Dragger 0]

Just a suggestion-

I personally didn't do the NFA paperwork on my shotgun before sending to Tromix on purpose. I wanted Tony to be the "manufacturer". I don't EVER plan to sell my SBS, but if circumstances required it- I'd sure rather have Tromix stamped on the receiver than mine..........

If I was a prospective buyer and saw "Charlie's Trust" as the manufacturer, even though the work looked great-I'm not offering you what I would if I saw Tromix on the receiver.

 

 

 

....and can I send it to tromix while the paperwork is pending and have tromix send it back to my ffl/sot?

 

It sounds like you may be mixing up form 1 with form 3, which is used just for NFA firearm transfers between SOT holders. An SOT holder would only be receiving an SBS from Tromix if they (not you) ordered it from Tromix. In that case Tromix would just use a regular Saiga 12 shotgun from their own stock to make the SBS, and then the SBS would be transferred from Tromix to the other SOT holder through a form 3 (an individual purchasing the SBS from this SOT holder would then go through the NFA transfer process using a form 4). In your case though it is you, not Tromix, who is the owner of the Saiga 12 that will be made into an SBS. So you would form 1 it, and after receiving the NFA tax stamp from the ATF you would then ship it directly to Tromix for their service, and then Tromix would ship it directly back to you. There is no need for the return shipping to go through an FFL holder or another SOT holder, since you already have the NFA tax stamp and are the legal owner of the NFA firearm as far as the ATF is concerned, and since temporarily sending an NFA firearm to a gunsmith for service or repair is not considered by the ATF to be a transfer under the terms of the NFA (see: http://www.atf.gov/press/breakingnews/fy01...0nfarepair.htm)

 

So I have a saiga 12 that I picked up today. And I intend to send it to tromix right away (Oct. 1st). Do I need to form 1 it now?

 

Since there isn't any disadvantage to getting the NFA tax stamp as soon as possible, you might as well start the form 1 process now. Assuming you get your order in to Tromix between October 1st and whenever Tromix stops accepting orders again (which will probably be no more than about a week later), only Tromix can tell you when they would want you to ship them your shotgun (my guess is Tromix would not want you to ship them the shotgun until they begin to get close to your number on their order list, and also of course not until after you receive your NFA tax stamp and have had the engraving done on your shotgun's receiver).

 

I've done SBRs on my own, and I use the trust method. But I've never had a SBS done by someone else. Can someone please post the acceptable steps?

 

It will be identical to the form 1 process you did with your SBRs, except of course that in this case (after you receive your NFA tax stamp from the ATF) there is the extra step of then sending your newly NFA registered firearm to Tromix for gunsmithing services, for which as was stated in the ATF letter (http://www.atf.gov/press/breakingnews/fy01/021800nfarepair.htm) mentioned above, the ATF recommends you fill out and send in a form 5.

 

 

Alright, I got it down. Right now getting paperwork approved through the ATF is taking forever. I've been waiting on a suppressor to clear for 3 months now. I'm going to hook up with my guy today and get form1 off to them. Man the wife is pissed that I'm dropping this much money right now, especially after we jut bought heating oil Ah well, I need feed my addiction.

Thanks man

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Just submit your Form 1 now, get on the waiting list October 1, when you number comes up, send in your gun.

 

There will still be about 200 orders remaining on the list October 1, so that's about an 8 month lead time right there. I expect to book about 50 orders per day which adds about a month and half to the lead time for EVERY DAY you wait to order after Oct 1. I will close the wait list when I hit 2010 deliveries. If you figure that out, the wait list will most likely only be open from October 1, through October 5.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

[Ckage83 0]

Just submit your Form 1 now, get on the waiting list October 1, when you number comes up, send in your gun.

 

There will still be about 200 orders remaining on the list October 1, so that's about an 8 month lead time right there. I expect to book about 50 orders per day which adds about a month and half to the lead time for EVERY DAY you wait to order after Oct 1. I will close the wait list when I hit 2010 deliveries. If you figure that out, the wait list will most likely only be open from October 1, through October 5.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

 

Sounds good. The paperwork should have no problem clearing by then.

Thanks.

-Chris