fritzrommel 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hi I need some help to make final decision. I have the possibility to buy a Vepr12 (that I like very much) or a Saiga 12K (which I like as well) I have read several topics and I would like to ask your suggestion - I buy the Vepr12 or I buy the Saiga 12 and I make the upgrade (ie magwell-muzzle compansator .....) pls help!!!!!!! many thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hi I need some help to make final decision. I have the possibility to buy a Vepr12 (that I like very much) or a Saiga 12K (which I like as well) I have read several topics and I would like to ask your suggestion - I buy the Vepr12 or I buy the Saiga 12 and I make the upgrade (ie magwell-muzzle compansator .....) pls help!!!!!!! many thanks buy the VEPR, they are rare here and you can get a saiga anywhere Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blackriton 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Here is mine. Go for it. The truth is that I did not find a S12 available when I bought mine, so there was never a delima. If I had them both side by side I dont know what I would choose. Propably I would go for the Vepr anyway because I have limited or no access to aftermarket parts for the S12 in my country. Bottomline. If you have access to the parts and like the DIY thing go for the Saiga. If not, go for the Vepr and you will only worry about what red dot to use. My 2 cents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 I belive you don't live in USA fritzrommel. Buy both. Molot has one advantage over Saiga and that is automatic bolt hold open device. Saiga does not have that feature. There is several models of Saiga and one in the picture is in factory configuration and the model name is Saiga-12K Tactical 040-04 Prepare to tune both shotguns for reliability ie shoot them in. Here is one Molot 12 with European manufactured drum: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fritzrommel 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 I belive you don't live in USA fritzrommel.Buy both. Molot has one advantage over Saiga and that is automatic bolt hold open device. Saiga does not have that feature. There is several models of Saiga and one in the picture is in factory configuration and the model name is Saiga-12K Tactical 040-04 Prepare to tune both shotguns for reliability ie shoot them in. Here is one Molot 12 with European manufactured drum: hi, thanks for your reply I live in Itay and even if it is difficult here as well to find them (saiga and Vepr) i can buy them in Germany the price for the Vepr is dobble of the Saiga (Vepr 1200,00 Euro - Saiga 650,00 Euro) that is why I was thinking to buy the Saiga and upgraded. But I like very much the Vepr (well is combat ready as it is and as BLACKRITON said you only have to warry to wich red dot you want on) ..... I would like (if I buy the VEPR) to change the stock with the one mounted on the Saiga 12K tactical 040-04 of TATE - actualy I like it very much tha configuration - TATE do you live i Europe ?? if yes can you pls tell me where did you buy the SAIGA 12K Tactical 040-04 ?? thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 hi, thanks for your reply I live in Itay and even if it is difficult here as well to find them (saiga and Vepr) i can buy them in Germany the price for the Vepr is dobble of the Saiga (Vepr 1200,00 Euro - Saiga 650,00 Euro) that is why I was thinking to buy the Saiga and upgraded. But I like very much the Vepr (well is combat ready as it is and as BLACKRITON said you only have to warry to wich red dot you want on) ..... I would like (if I buy the VEPR) to change the stock with the one mounted on the Saiga 12K tactical 040-04 of TATE - actualy I like it very much tha configuration - TATE do you live i Europe ?? if yes can you pls tell me where did you buy the SAIGA 12K Tactical 040-04 ??thanks 650 euro Saiga is just basic model. If you invest 1200 euros you will get Saiga 12K Tactical 040-04 model. I bought Saiga from local gun store Helsinki Finland. http://personal.inet.fi/yritys/asenurkka/asenurkka.htm I bought Molot from Germany Waffen Schumacher through my local gun store (they did the paperwork) www.ammo.fi I believe BLACKTRITORN has been lucky if his gun run ok out of the box. I needed to shoot that Molot in for proper function. It took aprox. 400 rounds of 36g loads. Now when my gun is little tuned it will run with 28g ammo also. It doesn't run with any 24g loads. Molot Vepr 12 has one bad habit. Bolt will go broke when aprox. 2000 rounds are fired. I suggest to buy Saiga bolts for spare. You can find spare parts and stock assemblies for your Saiga or Molot from Tantal Kalasnikov http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/index.html and Russian Military & Outdoor www.rusmilitary.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fritzrommel 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 hi, thanks for your reply I live in Itay and even if it is difficult here as well to find them (saiga and Vepr) i can buy them in Germany the price for the Vepr is dobble of the Saiga (Vepr 1200,00 Euro - Saiga 650,00 Euro) that is why I was thinking to buy the Saiga and upgraded. But I like very much the Vepr (well is combat ready as it is and as BLACKRITON said you only have to warry to wich red dot you want on) ..... I would like (if I buy the VEPR) to change the stock with the one mounted on the Saiga 12K tactical 040-04 of TATE - actualy I like it very much tha configuration - TATE do you live i Europe ?? if yes can you pls tell me where did you buy the SAIGA 12K Tactical 040-04 ??thanks 650 euro Saiga is just basic model. If you invest 1200 euros you will get Saiga 12K Tactical 040-04 model. I bought Saiga from local gun store Helsinki Finland. http://personal.inet.fi/yritys/asenurkka/asenurkka.htm I bought Molot from Germany Waffen Schumacher through my local gun store (they did the paperwork) www.ammo.fi I believe BLACKTRITORN has been lucky if his gun run ok out of the box. I needed to shoot that Molot in for proper function. It took aprox. 400 rounds of 36g loads. Now when my gun is little tuned it will run with 28g ammo also. It doesn't run with any 24g loads. Molot Vepr 12 has one bad habit. Bolt will go broke when aprox. 2000 rounds are fired. I suggest to buy Saiga bolts for spare. You can find spare parts and stock assemblies for your Saiga or Molot from Tantal Kalasnikov http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/index.html and Russian Military & Outdoor www.rusmilitary.com thank you Tate for all the Tips - can you tell me if you add the same probleme with Saiga 12K ??? I have the20K and is running ok - I have to use magnum load but I like it very much - It look like that Saiga is more rubust what do you think?? ciao Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 thank you Tate for all the Tips - can you tell me if you add the same probleme with Saiga 12K ??? I have the20K and is running ok - I have to use magnum load but I like it very much - It look like that Saiga is more rubust what do you think??ciao No, Saiga 12K is running ok with 28g loads when I took the gun first time on the range. The gun has been fired less than 100 rounds now. It almost run with 24g high speed loads but I need to shoot more with it. Quality of my both guns are same. If you change your recoil spring to lighter version your gun might run with lighter loads. Buy 1911 pistol recoil spring 10 lbs and use it with your Saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fritzrommel 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 thank you Tate for all the Tips - can you tell me if you add the same probleme with Saiga 12K ??? I have the20K and is running ok - I have to use magnum load but I like it very much - It look like that Saiga is more rubust what do you think??ciao No, Saiga 12K is running ok with 28g loads when I took the gun first time on the range. The gun has been fired less than 100 rounds now. It almost run with 24g high speed loads but I need to shoot more with it. Quality of my both guns are same. If you change your recoil spring to lighter version your gun might run with lighter loads. Buy 1911 pistol recoil spring 10 lbs and use it with your Saiga. THANK YOU VERY MUCH Tate for all your sugestion and opinion but I would like to ask you one more question...... if you have to decide between the two which one would you prefer the Saiga or for the VEPR ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 THANK YOU VERY MUCH Tate for all your sugestion and opinion but I would like to ask you one more question...... if you have to decide between the two which one would you prefer the Saiga or for the VEPR ??? Because the price of those 2 guns with factory accessories are same and I like to shoot with vertical grip and have automatic bolt hold open device, my choice is Molot. Even though Molot needed more tuning to work reliable. I believe that is because the gun was made in the beginning of production or it was made by power of Vodka. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fritzrommel 0 Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 THANK YOU VERY MUCH Tate for all your sugestion and opinion but I would like to ask you one more question...... if you have to decide between the two which one would you prefer the Saiga or for the VEPR ??? Because the price of those 2 guns with factory accessories are same and I like to shoot with vertical grip and have automatic bolt hold open device, my choice is Molot. Even though Molot needed more tuning to work reliable. I believe that is because the gun was made in the beginning of production or it was made by power of Vodka. Mybe Tate Vodka makes to do strange thinks - well then as there is a shop in Italy that as the Molot available immediately for 1200,oo Euro with 2 8rds mag. I will go for that - thaks a lot for your help I will let you know ciao Mario Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Mybe Tate Vodka makes to do strange thinks - well then as there is a shop in Italy that as the Molot available immediately for 1200,oo Euro with 2 8rds mag. I will go for that - thaks a lot for your help I will let you know ciao Mario Let me know how it runs out of the box with 32g loads. If it runs without ejection problems you will have a good start. Do not use Sellier Bellot Practical Sport 32g ammunition because it's too short for the magazines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fritzrommel 0 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Mybe Tate Vodka makes to do strange thinks - well then as there is a shop in Italy that as the Molot available immediately for 1200,oo Euro with 2 8rds mag. I will go for that - thaks a lot for your help I will let you know ciao Mario Let me know how it runs out of the box with 32g loads. If it runs without ejection problems you will have a good start. Do not use Sellier Bellot Practical Sport 32g ammunition because it's too short for the magazines. Hi TATE during this week end I have looked again at the Saiga 12K that you have I must say that it looks much better than the Molot I have looket at the shop in Finland where you have purchesed and I think that they are finished, Looking in Internet I have found that now there is a new model this: Saiga-12K Tactical 040-04 you can have a look at this site: http://www.tactical.ee/product_info.php?products_id=1028 - do you know of other shop where I could find it?? maybe in Russia or other in Finland - I like it much more than the molot ciao M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Hi TATE during this week end I have looked again at the Saiga 12K that you have I must say that it looks much better than the Molot I have looket at the shop in Finland where you have purchesed and I think that they are finished, Looking in Internet I have found that now there is a new model this: Saiga-12K Tactical 040-04 you can have a look at this site: http://www.tactical.ee/product_info.php?products_id=1028 - do you know of other shop where I could find it?? maybe in Russia or other in Finland - I like it much more than the molot ciao M. That model you are looking for is almost same as mine but furniture is plastic The model # is 05 my version is #04. My shotgun has wood furniture. I tried to find one for you but Saiga 12 K Tactical 04 model is sold out in Finland. It is very difficult to import guns from Russia even if you are licensed dealer. In England they have Tactical models of Saiga but the barrel is not so tactical because it's 24" long due to their legislation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snotmonster 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi sorry if this is off topic but I have to know who does the European manufactured drum magazine?? In fact I would like to know where I can get ANY magazines because I can't find any in the UK and every retailer I ask in the USA will not export, I got my saiga last week and I only have two mags (I need more for practical competition). Apologies again for hijacking the thread Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfighteruk 6 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi sorry if this is off topic but I have to know who does the European manufactured drum magazine?? In fact I would like to know where I can get ANY magazines because I can't find any in the UK and every retailer I ask in the USA will not export, I got my saiga last week and I only have two mags (I need more for practical competition). Apologies again for hijacking the thread Hi give Steve Pike a call at Shield shooting centre in Dorset : 01308482626 he usually has new & used saiga mags & bits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snotmonster 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi sorry if this is off topic but I have to know who does the European manufactured drum magazine?? In fact I would like to know where I can get ANY magazines because I can't find any in the UK and every retailer I ask in the USA will not export, I got my saiga last week and I only have two mags (I need more for practical competition). Apologies again for hijacking the thread Hi give Steve Pike a call at Shield shooting centre in Dorset : 01308482626 he usually has new & used saiga mags & bits. Hi Dave Steve hasn't got any at the moment - that's where I got the Saiga.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi sorry if this is off topic but I have to know who does the European manufactured drum magazine?? In fact I would like to know where I can get ANY magazines because I can't find any in the UK and every retailer I ask in the USA will not export, I got my saiga last week and I only have two mags (I need more for practical competition). Apologies again for hijacking the thread European manufacturer for drums is www.maxrounds.com That drum is expensive. I have one with both feed towers (for basic Saiga without magwel and for Molot with magwel). I have tested it so far only in my Molot and it doesn't run reliable because the feed angle is incorrect. You can try if this company in Germany is willing to send you some magazines: www.planet-of-gun.de They normally do not ship anything outside of Germany. Some pictures: Correct feed angle with original magazine Wrong feed angle with drum magazine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snotmonster 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Thanks very much for the great info, pictures and links - especially about the drum mags, I shall probably stay away from them for a while as my saiga has a magwell like the molot Edited February 21, 2009 by snotmonster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ufo 20 Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Wrong feed angle with drum magazine Where is problem? It's about drum or magcatch? Does magcatch touch the feedlips or drum is in the magwell too free? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ufo 20 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Vepr12 or Saiga12? I prefer Saiga. Both guns need to be modify. Boltcatch? Why? Fine loading is with open bolt and you can modify safety. Weaver? Which one? I like my C-more behind gasblock. Weaver over extraction window sometimes kick back empty shell. Magwell? Same battle as M16 vs. AK47. If you want to, you can buy aftermarket part and put it on(someone makes it from aluminium). All the rest of adjustment is all about your wallet and design. It's neverending story and i'm saigaholic... BTW - prepare yourself for changing bolt. It will broke, potentialy... Edited June 16, 2009 by ufo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 BTW - prepare yourself for changing bolt. It will broke, potentialy... Yes, mine got broken at 2000 rounds. I bought Saiga bolt for the Vepr and it is still running good. Very difficult to get a spare but I managed to get 2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ufo 20 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 4Tate: You bought whole Saiga for bolt for the Vepr? I'd like to buy only bolt? Any suggestion? What about drum? It does not work properly? Did you write to their support? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 4Tate: You bought whole Saiga for bolt for the Vepr? I'd like to buy only bolt? Any suggestion? What about drum? It does not work properly? Did you write to their support? No, Saiga is only for back up if something is wrong with the main gun in the match. Try Tantal for getting spare bolt. Drum is now fixed. The company fixed it in the factory. They made new feed tower parts according my instructions. I sent them a video of my test session and close up photos of the feed angle. Now I need only to fine tune the magazine catch with file because if I'm using heavy loads the magazine will drop (that means over 36g loads) With 32g and 36g loads no problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 to you european guys, take a look at our "wall of shame" here on the saiga-12.com forums for the reasons to your drum feed angle problems.... ANYWAY - Broken bolts? I have almost 10,000 rounds down my saiga12, and almost all rounds now are 76mm (3 inch) loads. Its getting messy in there, but it works just fine. I expect to have to replace the bolt before the gun reaches 20,000 rounds, but it wouldnt surprise me if it made it to that mark just fine.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ufo 20 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 to you european guys, take a look at our "wall of shame" here on the saiga-12.com forums for the reasons to your drum feed angle problems.... ANYWAY - Broken bolts? I have almost 10,000 rounds down my saiga12, and almost all rounds now are 76mm (3 inch) loads. Its getting messy in there, but it works just fine. I expect to have to replace the bolt before the gun reaches 20,000 rounds, but it wouldnt surprise me if it made it to that mark just fine.... I didn't catch that. What's the point? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 to you european guys, take a look at our "wall of shame" here on the saiga-12.com forums for the reasons to your drum feed angle problems.... ANYWAY - Broken bolts? I have almost 10,000 rounds down my saiga12, and almost all rounds now are 76mm (3 inch) loads. Its getting messy in there, but it works just fine. I expect to have to replace the bolt before the gun reaches 20,000 rounds, but it wouldnt surprise me if it made it to that mark just fine.... Just bad design of the same Russian factory. There are somewhere in this forum pictures of my broken bolt. You can see the difference between the bolts if you look at the pictures. BTW my feed angle problem was corrected in the drum factory with no charge. If MD will ever produce drum with feed tower I will gladly buy one or two. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ufo 20 Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 4Tate: Grind off edges around axis of a magcatch. Then magcatch reaches feedlips. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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