cleveland 0 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I picked up this Saiga a few years ago from Dunhams, but only put a couple hundred rounds through it. I recently traded it to someone in another state and just got an email from him about the head space. I have attached a pic. He has told me it will be labor intensive to fix and in dangerous to shoot. At first he thought I was taking advantage of him, but at this point I think he understands I had no idea there was any issues with the rifle. Is this something that Saiga will fix? Dunham's won't deal with me because the kid that is th manager doesn't know what to say other then, "All firearms sales are final." He said he is going to get the distributor's info, but I am not sure how far that will go. Am I just screwed? Any suggestions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 All 7.62x39 saiga's do this, it is a marking format for LE. NO BIG DEAL, ITS OK! Please check out all the previous posts. Thanks, Now have a beverage! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Well, that's how the Saigas are. The ring is there to tell the Soviet authorities that the round was fired by a sporting rifle and not a military Kalashnikov. It's only found in the 7.62x39 models. ETA: "headspace issues" involve inability to chamber or explosions, not crinkled case necks. Edited March 17, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cleveland 0 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I tried searching for head space issues and didn't find anything relevant. Are you guys sure this is normal? I will need some evidence that this is normal, because as it sits right now he is expecting to be compensated. I don't want to screw the guy, but in the same breath I don't want to pay to fix something that is normal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I tried searching for head space issues and didn't find anything relevant. Are you guys sure this is normal? I will need some evidence that this is normal, because as it sits right now he is expecting to be compensated. I don't want to screw the guy, but in the same breath I don't want to pay to fix something that is normal. Tell him to do his own research. NOBODY is being screwed here. It's normal for every 7.62x39 Saiga around the world. You're not getting any hits for 'headspace' because it's not a headspace issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Here's your answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I tried searching for head space issues and didn't find anything relevant. Are you guys sure this is normal? I will need some evidence that this is normal, because as it sits right now he is expecting to be compensated. I don't want to screw the guy, but in the same breath I don't want to pay to fix something that is normal. Dude you came to a forum where probably thousands of members own these things. It is exactly as has been previously stated--the dual diameters are an internal control placed by the Russians to distinguish shells fired from a nonmilitary AK from a military AK. We wouldn't shit you bro. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) Quick question on this subject to all the longtime Saiga owners: does this "step" that the Saiga firing chamber puts into the neck of the casing reduce the round's muzzle velocity? It seems a drastic step to take, (changing the design of the firing chamber), just to have a visual reference as to whether spent brass was fired from a "sporting" Saiga or one of the dozens of other AK variants from the rest of Europe/Asia. Damn Russians.. exporting their rather retarded and unnecessary gun-control measures over here. We've got more than enough of our own as it is. Edited March 18, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Quick question on this subject to all the longtime Saiga owners: does this "step" that the Saiga firing chamber puts into the neck of the casing reduce the round's muzzle velocity? None whatsoever. How would it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Damn Russians.. exporting their rather retarded and unnecessary gun-control measures over here. We've got more than enough of our own as it is. Do you think they really care about that? Their bottom line is $$$$. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 When you wildcat new cartridges, you normally have to fire form the cases. I did it with .223 to 7mm TCU. The case is shoved out about as much. Most think this is a throw away load, but I've seen fire form carts shoot great! I think the jury is out on the loss of velocity. Brass may be different than steel though. Good question! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Quick question on this subject to all the longtime Saiga owners: does this "step" that the Saiga firing chamber puts into the neck of the casing reduce the round's muzzle velocity? None whatsoever. How would it? By using some of the potential energy of the powder to expand the brass to create the "step". I'm curious to see if the SGL20 I ordered, (should finally arrive next Monday, I can't wait), has this "feature". I'm sure it probably will.. and it's not really a big deal.. just kind of sucks for reloading purposes, (which I'm forced to consider due to the ammo shortage and inflated prices). Oh and btw, here are some pics of what I bought, (just from the auction, unfortunately): Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Damn Russians.. exporting their rather retarded and unnecessary gun-control measures over here. We've got more than enough of our own as it is. Do you think they really care about that? Their bottom line is $$$$. I know... damn those slippery Cossack sluts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 just kind of sucks for reloading purposes, How's that? you have to resize the case necks anyway, don't ya? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 just kind of sucks for reloading purposes, How's that? you have to resize the case necks anyway, don't ya? Yeah but the "step" has got to put more stress on the brass when resized than a "regular" casing fired from any other AK variant would experience. So, you'll get fewer reloads from each casing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Your right about the issues it creates for the reloader. That's why I went with more .223. they put a ring into the case head (base) not as intrusive. And .223 is more available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Your right about the issues it creates for the reloader. That's why I went with more .223. they put a ring into the case head (base) not as intrusive. And .223 is more available. .223's are for varmint control. I aleady have a Rock River M4, so I didn't even consider buying a Saiga in .223. And, of course, I had no idea that Saiga 7.62x39's had this "stepped" cases issue when I bought it. It doesn't seem to be common knowledge in the general AK world. It's not that big a deal, it just kind of sucks, especially if it reduces muzzle velocity.. which it must, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) When you wildcat new cartridges, you normally have to fire form the cases. I did it with .223 to 7mm TCU. The case is shoved out about as much. Most think this is a throw away load, but I've seen fire form carts shoot great! I think the jury is out on the loss of velocity. Brass may be different than steel though. Good question! Take my MGI AR. Swap barrel to 6.8 Swap magwell for AK mags. Take some brass 7.62x39 cases and reload them with 6.8 dies. (Sizes the neck to 6.8) Load up a mag and shoot it. The "twice fired" 7.62x39 is now fire formed 6.8 brass. And with 6.8 at $1 a round an up this is a great way to get ammo. Edited March 18, 2009 by KrisFox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cleveland 0 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks guys! I sent him a link to this thread and it cleared the air. I understand the "all trades/sales final" but it seemed like a valid concern and I don't want to screw over a fellow gun nut. Thanks again!!! Bobby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I will be reloading for my 7.62x39 Saiga, but I am not overly concerned. IMI brass has annealed case necks. Will it shorten case re-load life, probably some. Most of my reloads will be low pressure 1600 FPS cast loads. I had a 45-550-120 3 1/4" Sharps that had an oversized chamber. 120 grains of FG Black Powder behind a 550 grain bullet insured that the case deformed to its full potential. It was a bitch full length resizing, but as the chamber was asymmetrical, neck sizing would not do. The brass held up to drastic resizing. Yes, I know the pressure cure is different with smokeless propellants, but deformed is deformed, and it re-sized fine. Talk about loud, I would shoot the 45-120 at the range, and people came running to see what was going on. The boom and smoke was like General Hood's Civil War artillery. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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