mwessel 0 Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I to am thinking about doing an SBS conversion. I used this link for the form 1: http://test.titleii.com/form1.html You fill in the info then print or save and it pastes everything into the Form 1. Few questions outside the obvious changes to the physics of the gun that will ensue. 1. Is it legal in Ohio? 2. Who (preferably a business member of this site) can do the barrel mod? I know I could do the initial chop but doing the additional milling and die cut of new threads for the break will end up in on of those @#$%* up sessions. With me looking at a crooked thread asking myself why...why...why... 3. And the path to this righteousness would be (help me on this) a. Fill the form out b. Take it to your local CLEO for sign off. c. Fill out ATF Form 5330.20 d. Send to the ATF agency on the form and $200 for the Making Tax. e. Pray they don't match my finger prints to that bank vault that ......nevermind that part f. Wait for the positive response and then get the deal done. Source of my info for this I found at the following link. Please feel free to chime in on any advice. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=80131 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwingnut 0 Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 If you are going to register it to yourself as an individual then you need to sumbit the photos & fingerprint card. If the gun is registered to you as an individual, you have to be the only adult who has access to the weapon. If you live alone, no problem. If you have roommate, you will have to keep it in a locked case or a safe so roommate doesn't have access to the bare weapon. If you are married or you live w/ your dad or something, it has to be in a safe or locked box that ONLY you have combination/key to. If the ATF comes knocking on your door & asks to search or to see weapon & your wife goes & gets it out of the safe for them she would be charged w/ "unlawful possession". Then you are looking at up to 10 yrs prision. Most people that are married & have individually registered weapons either don't give wives safe combinations or if it is something like suppressors, they'll keep thin in a little locked box in the safe. If you register weapons to a trust or a corporation, anyone who is a co-trustee or authorized member of the corp, respectively, can be in possession of said items. Plus, if you do it that way, you don't have to submit photo's & fingerprints & CLEO signiture. Just have a good lawyer do it, b/c if it is later found to be invalid you would be in unlawful possession. What you would be doing is Making an SBS. So you fill out a form 1, to make a NFA item. -send it Form 1 w/ $200 cheque or MO for the tax stamp &, if necessary, photos & fingerprint card that you obtain from police station -wait for months to get the form 1 returned to you approved w/ the tax stamp. -get your hack saw & have at it. Make copies of the forms & keep the originals in a Safe Deposit box b/c the ATF looses paperwork all the time & you loose yours & they loose theirs you will be in unlawful possession for lack of proof of registration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mwessel 0 Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Thanks for the reply. I would be registering as an individual. Keep it safe from my wife would not be an issue. I have a couple of options to keep access limited. I trust 2 of these would comply as you stated. 1. Change the combo on the safe so she can't get at it. 2. Lock in a separte case ( I have a 57 in Pelican case). 3. And I'm not sure if this would qualify but bicycle lock of sorts to an I bolt insdie the safe. Even thou she may have access to the safe she would no be able to remove the SBS. Do you think that one would qualify?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 -get your hack saw & have at it. Whoa guys, there's a lot more to making a short Saiga than cutting the barrel off. It's gas operated and wont cycle if you do that. The gas block must be moved back. Better do some research. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mwessel 0 Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Thanks BobAsh for your concern. Trust me I would not just pull the bolt cutters out and lop the end off. I trust rightwingnut was just a bit over zealous. My plan is once I get all the documents in order and get the go ahead from the BATF the I will solicit some help from somebody that is qualified to do the mod. Sounds like Tony with Tromix would be a prime candidate when the time comes. And again thanks for chiming in to make sure a innocent Saiga-12 didn't come to a horrible end. Please let me know of any other assistance or insights you may have on this. Will be much appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Please let me know of any other assistance or insights you may have on this. Will be much appreciated. Don't cut the barrel off yourself. It makes the shortening job much more difficult if it's already cut. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mwessel 0 Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Point taken. Any suggestions on who could do the deed when needed? Ballpark cost? I'm thinking about 3, no more than 4 inches off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 If you're only going to 14" you could possibly avoid moving the gas block if you open the gas ports. Of course, the short gas system will give maximum reliability and ammo capability. As far as prices go, I don't know what other shops are charging but there's a link to the Tromix site in my sigline and all prices are listed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 -get your hack saw & have at it. Whoa guys, there's a lot more to making a short Saiga than cutting the barrel off. It's gas operated and wont cycle if you do that. The gas block must be moved back. Better do some research. If you only reduce it by 1 inch, would that still require gas adjustments? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mwessel 0 Posted March 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 From what I have read around the forums, 1 inch will not make a big change thus no adjustments will be necessary. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Some guns are already marginal, gas-wise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Some guns are already marginal, gas-wise. Bobash. Do you think that 1 inch reduction will require adjustments to the gas ports? I do have a gunfixr plug and a 25% reduced power hammer spring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 There's no way to say what you'll have to do exactly, like I said all the guns are different. How does it shoot now? How far does it throw the brass? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 There's no way to say what you'll have to do exactly, like I said all the guns are different. How does it shoot now? How far does it throw the brass? It will shoot everything except the winchester AA feather weight #8 low brass. It throws the federal # 7 1/2 low brass about two feet. I have not tried the feather weight since I installed the 25% reduced recoil spring and the gunfixr plug. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) 2 feet isn't much of a toss, I'd call that marginal. I would say go ahead and shorten (NFA rule apply of course), but be prepared to do gas port mods if necessary. THIS THREAD has all the info you need to get the job done. Edited March 30, 2009 by BobAsh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 2 feet isn't much of a toss, I'd call that marginal. I would say go ahead and shorten (NFA rule apply of course), but be prepared to do gas port mods if necessary. THIS THREAD has all the info you need to get the job done. If I did have to do a gas port mod, what would I likely have to do knowing that my saiga 12 cycles marginally at 19 inch and it is about to be reduced to 18.2 inch? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 If I did have to do a gas port mod, what would I likely have to do knowing that my saiga 12 cycles marginally at 19 inch and it is about to be reduced to 18.2 inch? You could always open the (hopefully) 3 gas ports a little. Or your gun may cycle better as it breaks in, most do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 If I did have to do a gas port mod, what would I likely have to do knowing that my saiga 12 cycles marginally at 19 inch and it is about to be reduced to 18.2 inch? You could always open the (hopefully) 3 gas ports a little. Or your gun may cycle better as it breaks in, most do. How would I open up the 3 ports if needed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Drill bit. I don't really want to advise you on the size. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patriot12 11 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Drill bit. I don't really want to advise you on the size. Can it be hand held dremal, due to the fact that exsisting holes are being enlarged? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 I would just use a number-sized drill bit in a regular drill motor, but a dremel could work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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