fraggleout 0 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Is there a buffer in the gun? What kind of drum are you using? Apparently the Aluminum drum has a bad feed angle and wont work in any gun unless the gun is modified for the drum. And if the gun is modified for the drum no other mag will feed in it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Md Arms I think discovered that when the bolt hits battery without picking up the next round, that is because that particular gun is "overgassed" and that the fix is a replacement gas adjuster which features more finer of control of the gas entering the gas block. MDA sells the adjuster for around $35 I do believe. It was formerly called the GUNFIXER ADJUSTABLE GAS PLUG. The bolt as I understand it is simply being driven much too hard onthat particular gun. Much better info on MDA website and info column. He stated he has tried the gunfixer knob with the same results. To the OP, does this gun have trouble feeding with all mags or just the drum? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fraggleout 0 Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) Edited May 7, 2009 by fraggleout Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 OK so are is your bolt MISSING the rounds in the mags? Or is it getting jammed up and failing to feed? If it's getting jammed, is it jamming High or low? If it's missing the rounds all together, LOWER the gas setting. ~SN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fraggleout 0 Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 OK so are is your bolt MISSING the rounds in the mags? Or is it getting jammed up and failing to feed? If it's getting jammed, is it jamming High or low? If it's missing the rounds all together, LOWER the gas setting. ~SN It either misses the round all together or catches the round just before it gets chambered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 How does it run with the factory mag? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fraggleout 0 Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 How does it run with the factory mag? The mags that came with it were 12 round mags so there was no OEM Russian mag with the shotgun on delivery. I've tried to find them but locating OEM mags is just about impossible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Can you simulate the failure and take a picture? Thoughts that come to my head: "bolt-carrier rails too high" Also, the 12rd Surefires, I've noticed on my Black 2rd mags, the rim of the shell will catch on the inside back of the mag and delay the round from feeding up. Try smoothing out the inside back panel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fraggleout 0 Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) Can you simulate the failure and take a picture? Thoughts that come to my head: "bolt-carrier rails too high" Also, the 12rd Surefires, I've noticed on my Black 2rd mags, the rim of the shell will catch on the inside back of the mag and delay the round from feeding up. Try smoothing out the inside back panel. I'll lower the setting on GUN FIXER GAS PLUG to -1 and try smoothing out the mag. Also, I read at http://earthseaphoto.com/SagaofMySaiga.htm that it's better not to fill the magazines past 90% and to break in the gun with Wolf brand slugs. Any thoughts? Edited May 7, 2009 by fraggleout Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 From what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound like it's over gassed. It sounds like a slow feeding mag. Typically undergassed setups will FTE before you have problems with the bolt not going back far enough to grab the next round (from what I've seen/experienced anyhow). The easiest way to check for an over-gas situation is to remove the bolt carrier and inspect the rear trunion of the gun, and the rear part of the bolt carrier that could strike it. If there are signs of those 2 parts contacting and beating on each other then you have your answer. If they look clean then you might want to hand cycle shells rapidly and try to reproduce the problem. If you can reproduce the problem that way, slow down your action and watch everything to see what's up. Also, with the mag loaded to ~90% depress the shells into the mag about 1 or 2 rnds deep and let them up quickly. If they drag and take a while to pop up to the feed lips, that's probably the issue. 2 of my AGP mags (first run of Gen 2) had wide bodies and the ejector ring of the brass would jam up forward in the mag body (forward of the shell guide). Sometimes they would pop back and feed, but it would slow it down enough that it wouldn't feed reliably. Eventually when rounds got jammed in hard I figured out what was going on. The recoil was pushing the 2-3/4" rounds forward. That's why it would feed fine by hand but jam up when shooting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fraggleout 0 Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 From what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound like it's over gassed. It sounds like a slow feeding mag. Typically undergassed setups will FTE before you have problems with the bolt not going back far enough to grab the next round (from what I've seen/experienced anyhow). The easiest way to check for an over-gas situation is to remove the bolt carrier and inspect the rear trunion of the gun, and the rear part of the bolt carrier that could strike it. If there are signs of those 2 parts contacting and beating on each other then you have your answer. If they look clean then you might want to hand cycle shells rapidly and try to reproduce the problem. If you can reproduce the problem that way, slow down your action and watch everything to see what's up. Also, with the mag loaded to ~90% depress the shells into the mag about 1 or 2 rnds deep and let them up quickly. If they drag and take a while to pop up to the feed lips, that's probably the issue. 2 of my AGP mags (first run of Gen 2) had wide bodies and the ejector ring of the brass would jam up forward in the mag body (forward of the shell guide). Sometimes they would pop back and feed, but it would slow it down enough that it wouldn't feed reliably. Eventually when rounds got jammed in hard I figured out what was going on. The recoil was pushing the 2-3/4" rounds forward. That's why it would feed fine by hand but jam up when shooting. First I'd like to thank everyone for their input. I took all suggestions and did some experimenting. The first problem I had was with the 12rd Surefire magazines. I have 3 and all of them had a lip on them where the top of the magazine joins the main body of the magazine behind the brass. This was causing brass to catch. As pointed out in the last post you can check this easily by manually cycling a few rounds. Also as previously mentioned, they can be fixed by sanding down the back edge of the magazine until you can run you finger nail over it and not feel the edge. Then retest by manually cycling a few rounds. Then I tried a number of different commercial 3" slug loads. None would cycle the first 3 rounds properly if the magazine was full (12 rounds). I'd recommend not putting more than 8 rounds in the 12 round magazine. Test results: 1750 FPS rounds w/GunFixers Gas Plug set to -1: Shotgun cycled too fast to chamber the next round 1400 & 1500 FPS rounds w/GunFixers Gas Plug set to -1: Shotgun cycled perfectly 1200 FPS reduced recoil rounds w/GunFixers Gas Plug set to 2: Shotgun cycled perfectly Once again I'd like to thank all forum members for their input and I hope this post will help others with problems chambering rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnp 1 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 From what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound like it's over gassed. It sounds like a slow feeding mag. Typically undergassed setups will FTE before you have problems with the bolt not going back far enough to grab the next round (from what I've seen/experienced anyhow). The easiest way to check for an over-gas situation is to remove the bolt carrier and inspect the rear trunion of the gun, and the rear part of the bolt carrier that could strike it. If there are signs of those 2 parts contacting and beating on each other then you have your answer. If they look clean then you might want to hand cycle shells rapidly and try to reproduce the problem. If you can reproduce the problem that way, slow down your action and watch everything to see what's up. Also, with the mag loaded to ~90% depress the shells into the mag about 1 or 2 rnds deep and let them up quickly. If they drag and take a while to pop up to the feed lips, that's probably the issue. 2 of my AGP mags (first run of Gen 2) had wide bodies and the ejector ring of the brass would jam up forward in the mag body (forward of the shell guide). Sometimes they would pop back and feed, but it would slow it down enough that it wouldn't feed reliably. Eventually when rounds got jammed in hard I figured out what was going on. The recoil was pushing the 2-3/4" rounds forward. That's why it would feed fine by hand but jam up when shooting. Seem to remember reading here about a reduced strength recoil spring the net result of which is to slow the bolt cycle just a tad. This is not referring to a reduced strength hammer spring which is also available I think one of the Bidness Members here has it/them. First I'd like to thank everyone for their input. I took all suggestions and did some experimenting. The first problem I had was with the 12rd Surefire magazines. I have 3 and all of them had a lip on them where the top of the magazine joins the main body of the magazine behind the brass. This was causing brass to catch. As pointed out in the last post you can check this easily by manually cycling a few rounds. Also as previously mentioned, they can be fixed by sanding down the back edge of the magazine until you can run you finger nail over it and not feel the edge. Then retest by manually cycling a few rounds. Then I tried a number of different commercial 3" slug loads. None would cycle the first 3 rounds properly if the magazine was full (12 rounds). I'd recommend not putting more than 8 rounds in the 12 round magazine. Test results: 1750 FPS rounds w/GunFixers Gas Plug set to -1: Shotgun cycled too fast to chamber the next round 1400 & 1500 FPS rounds w/GunFixers Gas Plug set to -1: Shotgun cycled perfectly 1200 FPS reduced recoil rounds w/GunFixers Gas Plug set to 2: Shotgun cycled perfectly Once again I'd like to thank all forum members for their input and I hope this post will help others with problems chambering rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 You're welcome, and welcome to the addiction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Congrats! These things are tons of fun when they are running like a top. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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