sja2249 0 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Okay... So, another compliance question... This time I have a rock stock Saiga .410 shotgun. I was wondering how I could go about making it 922 compliant... If I'm looking at things correctly, there are not enough US made parts on the market to allow me to use Russian high cap mags, EVER. And BARELY enough US components available to use US made high cap mags.... Anybody have a saiga .410 that can use russian high cap mags? Where do I find US made parts? Sam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Okay... So, another compliance question... This time I have a rock stock Saiga .410 shotgun. I was wondering how I could go about making it 922 compliant... If I'm looking at things correctly, there are not enough US made parts on the market to allow me to use Russian high cap mags, EVER. And BARELY enough US components available to use US made high cap mags.... Anybody have a saiga .410 that can use russian high cap mags? Where do I find US made parts? Sam There are plenty of US parts to make your .410 compliant depending on if you are converting the gun or not. If converting you can use a US fire control group for 3 parts pistol grip buttstock,and handguard for 3 more parts. Also the gas pistons that are available for the siaga 12 work on the 410 as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Okay... So, another compliance question... This time I have a rock stock Saiga .410 shotgun. I was wondering how I could go about making it 922 compliant... If I'm looking at things correctly, there are not enough US made parts on the market to allow me to use Russian high cap mags, EVER. And BARELY enough US components available to use US made high cap mags.... Anybody have a saiga .410 that can use russian high cap mags? Where do I find US made parts? Sam I"m not sure what you mean by "not enough parts on the maket". Were you wanting to keep it "rock stock"? All you need to use US made "non sporting" magazines (the term "high cap" is a legislated term and means the same thing as 'frogfeathers' or 'picklehair') is a US made magazine (unless you have a threaded muzzle, and then you'll need one US part in the shotgun). THe US made mag counts for 3 parts and factory Saiga shotguns have 13 countable parts. The object of 922r is to have 10 foreign parts or less on the firearm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sja2249 0 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Okay... So, another compliance question... This time I have a rock stock Saiga .410 shotgun. I was wondering how I could go about making it 922 compliant... If I'm looking at things correctly, there are not enough US made parts on the market to allow me to use Russian high cap mags, EVER. And BARELY enough US components available to use US made high cap mags.... Anybody have a saiga .410 that can use russian high cap mags? Where do I find US made parts? Sam I"m not sure what you mean by "not enough parts on the maket". Were you wanting to keep it "rock stock"? All you need to use US made "non sporting" magazines (the term "high cap" is a legislated term and means the same thing as 'frogfeathers' or 'picklehair') is a US made magazine (unless you have a threaded muzzle, and then you'll need one US part in the shotgun). THe US made mag counts for 3 parts and factory Saiga shotguns have 13 countable parts. The object of 922r is to have 10 foreign parts or less on the firearm. My .410 has a threaded muzzle. It was my understanding, that I needed to replace 2-3 parts on the gun to use a US made mag, and something like 5 parts to use a Russian 10 round magazine? Is this not correct? Sam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Okay... So, another compliance question... This time I have a rock stock Saiga .410 shotgun. I was wondering how I could go about making it 922 compliant... If I'm looking at things correctly, there are not enough US made parts on the market to allow me to use Russian high cap mags, EVER. And BARELY enough US components available to use US made high cap mags.... Anybody have a saiga .410 that can use russian high cap mags? Where do I find US made parts? Sam I"m not sure what you mean by "not enough parts on the maket". Were you wanting to keep it "rock stock"? All you need to use US made "non sporting" magazines (the term "high cap" is a legislated term and means the same thing as 'frogfeathers' or 'picklehair') is a US made magazine (unless you have a threaded muzzle, and then you'll need one US part in the shotgun). THe US made mag counts for 3 parts and factory Saiga shotguns have 13 countable parts. The object of 922r is to have 10 foreign parts or less on the firearm. My .410 has a threaded muzzle. It was my understanding, that I needed to replace 2-3 parts on the gun to use a US made mag, and something like 5 parts to use a Russian 10 round magazine? Is this not correct? Sam You just need to work on your math skills. A magazine counts for 3 parts. If it's US made, that's 3 US parts. Your Saiga has 14 countable parts. 14 countable parts -3 US parts (magazine) -- 11 foreign part left in the shotgun This means you need one US part in your shotgun to legally use US made 'non sporting' magazines. If you're gonna use Russian "non sporting" magazines, you'll need 4 US parts in your shotgun for legality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sja2249 0 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Okay... So, another compliance question... This time I have a rock stock Saiga .410 shotgun. I was wondering how I could go about making it 922 compliant... If I'm looking at things correctly, there are not enough US made parts on the market to allow me to use Russian high cap mags, EVER. And BARELY enough US components available to use US made high cap mags.... Anybody have a saiga .410 that can use russian high cap mags? Where do I find US made parts? Sam I"m not sure what you mean by "not enough parts on the maket". Were you wanting to keep it "rock stock"? All you need to use US made "non sporting" magazines (the term "high cap" is a legislated term and means the same thing as 'frogfeathers' or 'picklehair') is a US made magazine (unless you have a threaded muzzle, and then you'll need one US part in the shotgun). THe US made mag counts for 3 parts and factory Saiga shotguns have 13 countable parts. The object of 922r is to have 10 foreign parts or less on the firearm. My .410 has a threaded muzzle. It was my understanding, that I needed to replace 2-3 parts on the gun to use a US made mag, and something like 5 parts to use a Russian 10 round magazine? Is this not correct? Sam You just need to work on your math skills. A magazine counts for 3 parts. If it's US made, that's 3 US parts. Your Saiga has 14 countable parts. 14 countable parts -3 US parts (magazine) -- 11 foreign part left in the shotgun This means you need one US part in your shotgun to legally use US made 'non sporting' magazines. If you're gonna use Russian "non sporting" magazines, you'll need 4 US parts in your shotgun for legality. I guess the only way to get up to 4 parts is to replace the FCG? If I don't want to replace the FCG, I don't think there are enough aftermarket parts.... I can replace the stock set for 2 parts.... And??? Sam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I guess the only way to get up to 4 parts is to replace the FCG? If I don't want to replace the FCG, I don't think there are enough aftermarket parts.... I can replace the stock set for 2 parts.... And??? Sam Well, I'll stop beating around the bush. You should just convert the Saiga and then you won't worry about 922r or whatever, as you'll have the opportunity for 5 US parts (FCG, butt stock and pistol grip) by converting. You'll then be able to use any magazine, and enjoy the enhanced (over factory) ergonomics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sja2249 0 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I guess the only way to get up to 4 parts is to replace the FCG? If I don't want to replace the FCG, I don't think there are enough aftermarket parts.... I can replace the stock set for 2 parts.... And??? Sam Well, I'll stop beating around the bush. You should just convert the Saiga and then you won't worry about 922r or whatever, as you'll have the opportunity for 5 US parts (FCG, butt stock and pistol grip) by converting. You'll then be able to use any magazine, and enjoy the enhanced (over factory) ergonomics. Yeah... I just didn't want to put that much effort/expense into the project. Are there any good step-by-step guides out there? I must admit, I'm a bit chicken to try this myself. Sam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Yeah... I just didn't want to put that much effort/expense into the project. Are there any good step-by-step guides out there? I must admit, I'm a bit chicken to try this myself. Sam Your question is sort of the same as a person going to the Vatican and asking if there are any priests around. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sja2249 0 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Yeah... I just didn't want to put that much effort/expense into the project. Are there any good step-by-step guides out there? I must admit, I'm a bit chicken to try this myself. Sam Your question is sort of the same as a person going to the Vatican and asking if there are any priests around. LMAO Gee thanks. Okay, I found a good guide. LOL Does anybody know if the older 410's had the barrel nut hole punched out? My 410 predates the BHO device..... Sam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 LMAO Gee thanks. Okay, I found a good guide. LOL Does anybody know if the older 410's had the barrel nut hole punched out? My 410 predates the BHO device..... Sam What's a "barrel nut hole"? . . and if you've found this page, take it as an "overview". It was written more than 11 years ago and things have changed since then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sja2249 0 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 LMAO Gee thanks. Okay, I found a good guide. LOL Does anybody know if the older 410's had the barrel nut hole punched out? My 410 predates the BHO device..... Sam What's a "barrel nut hole"? . . and if you've found this page, take it as an "overview". It was written more than 11 years ago and things have changed since then. Sorry. Too much going on in my tiny head. Grip nut hole. THe square hole that the ?grip nut? fits into? Sam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sja2249 0 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 LMAO Gee thanks. Okay, I found a good guide. LOL Does anybody know if the older 410's had the barrel nut hole punched out? My 410 predates the BHO device..... Sam What's a "barrel nut hole"? . . and if you've found this page, take it as an "overview". It was written more than 11 years ago and things have changed since then. Sorry. Too much going on in my tiny head. Grip nut hole. THe square hole that the ?grip nut? fits into? Sam Oh... and what things have changed? Are there any better guides? Sam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Oh... and what things have changed? Are there any better guides? Sam Our very own Tech Section is full of up to date info on converting a Saiga (watch out for the priests). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sja2249 0 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Oh... and what things have changed? Are there any better guides? Sam Our very own Tech Section is full of up to date info on converting a Saiga (watch out for the priests). Yeah.... thanks for the pointer... I can't say that was very enlightening. *sigh* I see mountains of information about converting rifles, and a bunch of stuff about converting S-12's. But most of what I see doesn't seem very helpful to me. *shrugs* Maybe I just don't get it. I still don't know what parts I'll need, whether I'll need to cut any new holes in my receiver, etc. Sam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Oh... and what things have changed? Are there any better guides? Sam Our very own Tech Section is full of up to date info on converting a Saiga (watch out for the priests). Yeah.... thanks for the pointer... I can't say that was very enlightening. *sigh* I see mountains of information about converting rifles, and a bunch of stuff about converting S-12's. But most of what I see doesn't seem very helpful to me. *shrugs* Maybe I just don't get it. I still don't know what parts I'll need, whether I'll need to cut any new holes in my receiver, etc. Sam They all convert the same. Yes, you'll need to cut a PG hole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big Baba 0 Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Okay... So, another compliance question... This time I have a rock stock Saiga .410 shotgun. I was wondering how I could go about making it 922 compliant... If I'm looking at things correctly, there are not enough US made parts on the market to allow me to use Russian high cap mags, EVER. And BARELY enough US components available to use US made high cap mags.... Anybody have a saiga .410 that can use russian high cap mags? Where do I find US made parts? Sam I"m not sure what you mean by "not enough parts on the maket". Were you wanting to keep it "rock stock"? All you need to use US made "non sporting" magazines (the term "high cap" is a legislated term and means the same thing as 'frogfeathers' or 'picklehair') is a US made magazine (unless you have a threaded muzzle, and then you'll need one US part in the shotgun). THe US made mag counts for 3 parts and factory Saiga shotguns have 13 countable parts. The object of 922r is to have 10 foreign parts or less on the firearm. My .410 has a threaded muzzle. It was my understanding, that I needed to replace 2-3 parts on the gun to use a US made mag, and something like 5 parts to use a Russian 10 round magazine? Is this not correct? Sam You just need to work on your math skills. A magazine counts for 3 parts. If it's US made, that's 3 US parts. Your Saiga has 14 countable parts. 14 countable parts -3 US parts (magazine) -- 11 foreign part left in the shotgun This means you need one US part in your shotgun to legally use US made 'non sporting' magazines. If you're gonna use Russian "non sporting" magazines, you'll need 4 US parts in your shotgun for legality. I guess the only way to get up to 4 parts is to replace the FCG? If I don't want to replace the FCG, I don't think there are enough aftermarket parts.... I can replace the stock set for 2 parts.... And??? Sam 1. How about a SGM trirail: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...Tactical/Detail 2. Followed by a Chaos gas piston: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...20-CHAOS/Detail 3. Add in a DPH muzzle break http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...AN-STYLE/Detail 4. And then change your trigger mainspring: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...inspring/Detail The only thing I am not sure about 922r "counting" is the trigger spring. I am sure you can get most of these things elsewhere, I just gave links to CSS because they always have been great when I ordered stuff from them and they seem to be interested and supportive of the underappreciated 410. BB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 1. How about a SGM trirail: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...Tactical/Detail2. Followed by a Chaos gas piston: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...20-CHAOS/Detail 3. Add in a DPH muzzle break http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...AN-STYLE/Detail 4. And then change your trigger mainspring: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...inspring/Detail The only thing I am not sure about 922r "counting" is the trigger spring. I am sure you can get most of these things elsewhere, I just gave links to CSS because they always have been great when I ordered stuff from them and they seem to be interested and supportive of the underappreciated 410. BB Springs are not countable parts. I suggest you refer to the 922r list for the parts you can use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big Baba 0 Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 1. How about a SGM trirail: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...Tactical/Detail2. Followed by a Chaos gas piston: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...20-CHAOS/Detail 3. Add in a DPH muzzle break http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...AN-STYLE/Detail 4. And then change your trigger mainspring: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...inspring/Detail The only thing I am not sure about 922r "counting" is the trigger spring. I am sure you can get most of these things elsewhere, I just gave links to CSS because they always have been great when I ordered stuff from them and they seem to be interested and supportive of the underappreciated 410. BB Springs are not countable parts. I suggest you refer to the 922r list for the parts you can use. Oh well, looks like my master scheme wouldn't work and you need a US mag (plus one of the "good" parts I listed) or do a full conversion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sja2249 0 Posted May 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 1. How about a SGM trirail: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...Tactical/Detail2. Followed by a Chaos gas piston: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...20-CHAOS/Detail 3. Add in a DPH muzzle break http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...AN-STYLE/Detail 4. And then change your trigger mainspring: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...inspring/Detail The only thing I am not sure about 922r "counting" is the trigger spring. I am sure you can get most of these things elsewhere, I just gave links to CSS because they always have been great when I ordered stuff from them and they seem to be interested and supportive of the underappreciated 410. BB Springs are not countable parts. I suggest you refer to the 922r list for the parts you can use. Oh well, looks like my master scheme wouldn't work and you need a US mag (plus one of the "good" parts I listed) or do a full conversion. I took a look at my saiga last night. Definitely no BHO, there IS a hole cut for a single hook trigger, but no pistol grip nut hole. Is the 12 gauge puck definitely gonna fit my .410? I see that Mississippi Auto Arms sells G2 FCG's that have been modified for the .410... is this a good thing to buy? Are the two rear pins that I need to drill out completely superfluous? Thanks. Sam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sja2249 0 Posted May 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Okay... So, another compliance question... This time I have a rock stock Saiga .410 shotgun. I was wondering how I could go about making it 922 compliant... If I'm looking at things correctly, there are not enough US made parts on the market to allow me to use Russian high cap mags, EVER. And BARELY enough US components available to use US made high cap mags.... Anybody have a saiga .410 that can use russian high cap mags? Where do I find US made parts? Sam There are plenty of US parts to make your .410 compliant depending on if you are converting the gun or not. If converting you can use a US fire control group for 3 parts pistol grip buttstock,and handguard for 3 more parts. Also the gas pistons that are available for the siaga 12 work on the 410 as well. Well, the Chaos gas puck most certainly does *NOT* fit. *GRRR* That was a waste of money. *sigh* Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big Baba 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Well, the Chaos gas puck most certainly does *NOT* fit. *GRRR* That was a waste of money. *sigh* Sorry if I led you astray-I have not tried that I my 410 but I thought the gas tube was the same diameter for all the saiga shotguns. any one else been able to replace the 410 gas puck with a US part? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 There are at least 3 versions of S-.410 gas systems. The newer guns are the same as the S12, but he earlier ones are not. If you use a USA trigger group, and don't add any foreign parts to the count (use a USA pistol grip) you should be OK, the trunnion don't count on a shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wvhollow 0 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 There are at least 3 versions of S-.410 gas systems. The newer guns are the same as the S12, but he earlier ones are not. If you use a USA trigger group, and don't add any foreign parts to the count (use a USA pistol grip) you should be OK, the trunnion don't count on a shotgun. What is this "FCG" everyone is speaking of? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 What is this "FCG" everyone is speaking of? The Fire Control Group is the trigger, hammer, and disconnector. A US-made FCG counts as three 922r compliance parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pdbh171 0 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 There are at least 3 versions of S-.410 gas systems. The newer guns are the same as the S12, but he earlier ones are not. If you use a USA trigger group, and don't add any foreign parts to the count (use a USA pistol grip) you should be OK, the trunnion don't count on a shotgun. GOB, it is my understanding that being 922r compliant is not so much about "adding" U.S. made parts as it is about "removing" foreign imported parts AND replacing with U.S. made parts. The saiga's are imported with 14 922r parts and to be "converted" to pistol grip configuration, it can have no more than 10 imported parts. As such,"adding" a U.S. made pistol grip , when it was not imported with a foreign made pistol grip....will not alter it's 922r compliance. If I am wrong, I hope someone will alert me. Patrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) There are at least 3 versions of S-.410 gas systems. The newer guns are the same as the S12, but he earlier ones are not. If you use a USA trigger group, and don't add any foreign parts to the count (use a USA pistol grip) you should be OK, the trunnion don't count on a shotgun. GOB, it is my understanding that being 922r compliant is not so much about "adding" U.S. made parts as it is about "removing" foreign imported parts AND replacing with U.S. made parts. The saiga's are imported with 14 922r parts and to be "converted" to pistol grip configuration, it can have no more than 10 imported parts. As such,"adding" a U.S. made pistol grip , when it was not imported with a foreign made pistol grip....will not alter it's 922r compliance. If I am wrong, I hope someone will alert me. Patrick "Adding" give you 15 countable parts, so it's not a wash. P.S. No Saiga is imported with a "pistol grip". Edited July 23, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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