Crusader 64 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Does firing 3in Magnum loads in the Saiga 12 cause increased wear on the gun vs 2 3/4in? I must admit that I am a power freak and fire 3in Mags every chance I get, but it seems that most members on this forum prefer 2 3/4in shells. Any thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I run 3" all the time... As long as your gas setting is set right... there really is no difference between high brass 2 3/4 and 3in... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slyguy 0 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) It's your gun, your call. I'd tell a friend that 3" mag buck loads are ok sometimes, but not a great idea to make a habit of it if you like your gun. Shotgun magnum loads are kinda like +P loads in pistols IMO: basically just part of gun magazine and industry hype/marketing trying to appeal to the "Mo Power!" types. Can you use em? Sure. Do they look and feel cool at the range? I guess so... that's not important to me, I want a good balance of cost, reliability, and accuracy. Are they harder on your gun? Definitely. Do they improve accuracy/speed of follow up shots? No way... makes it worse due to significantly more kick. Personally, I go with 2 3/4" 00 buck... regular, or reduced recoil if it's similar price. I usually use Estate 00 buck in 250rd pack for range practice, and Rem reduced recoil 00 buck for HD. 2 3/4" is cheaper, easier to find, less pressure and wear on your gun, and less recoil... meaning faster and more accurate shooting. A shotgun, esp 12ga with buck, has plenty of stopping power already. I don't buy the hype, JMO. If you feel that you must show the world you have big balls, buy flat front slacks instead of expensive ammo. Edited June 17, 2009 by slyguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crusader 64 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 It's your gun, your call. I'd tell a friend that 3" mag buck loads are ok sometimes, but not a great idea to make a habit of it if you like your gun. Shotgun magnum loads are kinda like +P loads in pistols IMO: basically just part of gun magazine and industry hype/marketing trying to appeal to the "Mo Power!" types. Can you use em? Sure. Do they look and feel cool at the range? I guess so... that's not important to me, I want a good balance of cost, reliability, and accuracy. Are they harder on your gun? Definitely. Do they improve accuracy/speed of follow up shots? No way... makes it worse due to significantly more kick. Personally, I go with 2 3/4" 00 buck... regular, or reduced recoil if it's similar price. I usually use Estate 00 buck in 250rd pack for range practice, and Rem reduced recoil 00 buck for HD. 2 3/4" is cheaper, easier to find, less pressure and wear on your gun, and less recoil... meaning faster and more accurate shooting. A shotgun, esp 12ga with buck, has plenty of stopping power already. I don't buy the hype, JMO. If you feel that you must show the world you have big balls, buy flat front slacks instead of expensive ammo. I am definately a "Mo Power!' type. Makes since, but which parts would wear out first. The bolt or the barrel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slyguy 0 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) ...which parts would wear out first. The bolt or the barrel?From high power loads? I'd say mainly the bolt and rear block, but the higher pressure loads affect the gun overall. Try to search and look at the FAQs.. there are lots pics of some pretty beat up Saigas. Assuming you never have a 12/20 burst or other incident where a shell goes off in the barrel, then a smooth barrel should be the part of the gun with the longest life of all. Edited June 17, 2009 by slyguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 you really shouldn't have a problem if you adjust you gas setting properly..... Saiga's are as rugged as they come... If you run high brass with the gas wide open... well, that's just dumb!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6x6pinz 4 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 the 3" mag round in steel is all I use come duck season. I shoot at least 3 to 4 cases a year of the stuff. The rest of the time I will use 2 3/4' just because clays don't require the heavier payload. In that all my buddies hunt waterfowl with me and we use pretty much the same ammo there is no side by side comparison I can give you. It would make sense that the more bang there is that there would be more wear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slyguy 0 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) the 3" mag round in steel is all I use come duck season...Yep... bird hunting is probably the only spot where I'd prefer to use 3" shells. You are limited to 2 or 3 on your gun capacity in most states, so you need as many pellets as you can get to make each shot count. When I replied above, I assumed this thread was askin about using 3" magnum buckshot in HD type situations since the OP was posting a lot about that: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=41278 Edited June 18, 2009 by slyguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tushisvet 2 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 In Russia 2 3/4 is two times cheaper that 3. It is the main reason to use 2 3/4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slyguy 0 Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 In Russia 2 3/4 is two times cheaper that 3. It is the main reason to use 2 3/4Wow... that's crazy. Here in US, the 3in shells cost about 25% more than 2.75" shells of the same brand/type. Even that is enough to mean hundreds of $ after awhile with the way Saiga eats shells, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Purely financial, buy more = shoot more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tushisvet 2 Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) Purely financial, buy more = shoot more. Yes! Every practice twice cuts down expences or I have two times more practice Cheapest Sporting (12/70/28gr) 2 3/4' costs 33 cents, cheapest Hunting (12/76/44gr) 3' costs 66 cents. This shop with very long line is about 30 km from Moscow on the factory. In Moscow prices is higher up to 50%. Edited June 21, 2009 by Tushisvet Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarPD 6 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 For hunting or even recreational use, 3" magnum shells should work fine with the correct gas setting, and your S 12 should last longer than you do, unless you shoot several cases of hot ammo every day over every weekend. But then, if you can afford to shoot several cases of 3" Magnum buck and slugs every day on every weekend, you can afford to buy another S 12 when the one you have wears out. For home or personal defense though, power freaks like I used to be forget about follow up shots, repeat shots, and/or multiple adversaries that require FAST and ACCURATE follow-up/repeat shots. Go somewhere in the field that allows safe shooting across a broad panorama, like a 180 degree sweep, with a good backdrop. Set up targets at varying ranges from 15 to 100 yards and all at various staggered bearings. Then try to shoot rapidly at your varying and staggered targets. See how many you can hit with 3" Magnum heavy shot buck loads and slugs, and time yourself. Then try it again with standard 2-3/4" loads, and then try reduced recoil loads. Remember, you are simulating a real combat scenario, which means you can't miss even one shot, and must eliminate ALL targets in an extremely short time. If your hits with 3" Magnum are equal to the standard 2-3/4" and reduced redpoil loads, and the time is the same, then by all means, keep 3" magnum buckshot and slugs in your HD S 12 for all applications. Otherwise, use them for fun, but keep the much lower recoil standard and reduced recoil 2-3/4" buck loads for home/personal defense. There's good reason police departments don't issue or even authorize .44 Magnums revolvers or .50 caliber Desert Eagle semi-auto pistols, action movies notwithstanding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slyguy 0 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) ...For home or personal defense though, power freaks like I used to be forget about follow up shots, repeat shots, and/or multiple adversaries that require FAST and ACCURATE follow-up/repeat shots. Go somewhere in the field that allows safe shooting across a broad panorama, like a 180 degree sweep, with a good backdrop. Set up targets at varying ranges from 15 to 100 yards and all at various staggered bearings. Then try to shoot rapidly at your varying and staggered targets. See how many you can hit with 3" Magnum heavy shot buck loads and slugs, and time yourself. Then try it again with standard 2-3/4" loads, and then try reduced recoil loads. Remember, you are simulating a real combat scenario, which means you can't miss even one shot, and must eliminate ALL targets in an extremely short time. If your hits with 3" Magnum are equal to the standard 2-3/4" and reduced redpoil loads, and the time is the same, then by all means, keep 3" magnum buckshot and slugs in your HD S 12 for all applications. Otherwise, use them for fun, but keep the much lower recoil standard and reduced recoil 2-3/4" buck loads for home/personal defense. There's good reason police departments don't issue or even authorize .44 Magnums revolvers or .50 caliber Desert Eagle semi-auto pistols, action movies notwithstanding. Great post... exactly what I was getting at. There have been multiple police dept studies which showed faster and more accurate shooting with 20g versus 12g, and I think that's at least partially what led to the appearance of reduced recoil ("tactical") buck for 12g... cheaper to buy new ammo than new SWAT and police shotguns. A lot of stuff looks cool at the range or in Hollywood but falls flat on its face in realistic scenerios. In addition to slower and less accurate follow up shots, the 12g 3" magnum rounds also have a significantly bigger muzzle blast in my experience, and it will be harder on your ears and probably wreak havoc on your night vision in any low light scenerio (ie most home defenses). Personally, I use not only reduced recoil 2.75" buck but also 20ga pump + Knoxx instead of 12ga as my HD shotgun... still plenty of stopping power to spare, and recoil is almost a non-factor in that gun/ammo combo. If anyone at the range shooting notices the pile of yellow 20ga shells and asks me about my gun, I offer them a chance to shoot it... they get over the "20ga are for women and kids" myth pretty fast. Edited June 22, 2009 by slyguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 ....There's good reason police departments don't issue or even authorize .44 Magnums revolvers or .50 caliber Desert Eagle semi-auto pistols, action movies notwithstanding. I was authorized and carried a .44 Desert Eagle for a while when employed by a local Sheriff's office local to Atlanta. I still have the Black Basket Weave IMI holster I was required to carry it in. The .44 Mag and especially the .41 Mag, are more common out in the Western States. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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