voland 1 Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hi Folks I have a question regarding the disassembly of the S20 bolt. I have drifted out both pins in the bolt, I was able to remove the extractor, but I can't remove either the firing pin or the bolt head. The bolt head on weapon is very difficult to rotate and I am unable to pull it from the bolt. I do not want to apply too much force, is there some trick to this? I have a very difficult time opening the action, and I suspect there is a burr on either the bolt, or the bolt head, that is why I want to completely take the assembly apart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hi Folks I have a question regarding the disassembly of the S20 bolt. I have drifted out both pins in the bolt, I was able to remove the extractor, but I can't remove either the firing pin or the bolt head. The bolt head on weapon is very difficult to rotate and I am unable to pull it from the bolt. I do not want to apply too much force, is there some trick to this? I have a very difficult time opening the action, and I suspect there is a burr on either the bolt, or the bolt head, that is why I want to completely take the assembly apart. As you have said, somethings not right on that. The bolt should fall apart when you take the roll pins out. Did the firing pin break? Sounds like there is something stuck in the channel for the roll pin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Are you able to push against the spring loaded firing pin from the rear, and see the actual firing pin peek out of the hole in the bolt face? It's two pieces with a spring holding the firing pin itself in the bolt head. Are you able to separate the bolt head any at all from the rest of it? How long is the pin you removed? (not the extractor pin) The larger pin should be about 1/4" longer (approx.) If you only got part of the pin out, that would explain not being able to separate it still. Otherwise, something has to be broken in there and caught in the keyway. I just took this S-20 bolt apart and took pics. It should look like this. (with the extractor still in stalled) 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voland 1 Posted October 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Thank you for the replies and pictures, exactly what I needed. The pin is about 1/4 inch and it came out all the way. The pin channel is clear. I can get the firing pin to protrude from the bolt head, by pushing it. The bolt head requires considerable force to rotate, and it will only come out of the bolt to the very start of the retaining pin channel. What to do next? Force the bolt head out or not? What can be the cause of this? Bad spring? Metal chips? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 You mean the whole pin is 1/4" long? It should be just over 3/4" long, but 1/4" longer than the other pin. Can you see a full round hole (opening) all the way through the pin channel, from one side to the other with the pin out? (you should only be able to see this with the bolt head turned like it goes into the gun, and a few degrees on each side of this position) If you have a totally clear channel where the pin goes, and you have the whole thing out, then you should be able to lube it good and pull the bolt head free while rotating it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voland 1 Posted October 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Can you see a full round hole (opening) all the way through the pin channel, from one side to the other with the pin out?. I can see the opening, and the pin is intact. I will try to force the bolt head out tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Try soaking it good in some penetrating oil for awhile. Then just put the bolt head in a padded vice and use something to grasp the bolt firmly and try twisting it apart. There must be some kind of serious crud in there because normally the pressure of that little firing pin spring alone, is enough to make it come apart all by itself with the pin out. It should spin very freely too. Good luck and let us know what the problem was. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voland 1 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Got the bolt head separated from the bolt with a brass punch and a small hammer. Took a bit of force. Found a massive burr, on the rear edge of the retaining pin channel. The burr prevented rotation of the bolt, and caused the very rough cycling. I took the burr out with a small file, polished the inside and outside, now the action is very smooth. I am very disappointed by this, the shotgun barely has 50 rounds through it, and it has never been abused by me. The action was somewhat stiff at first, and got progressively worse. This burr must have been there to start with, and should have been noticed at the factory, and removed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Got the bolt head separated from the bolt with a brass punch and a small hammer. Took a bit of force. Found a massive burr, on the rear edge of the retaining pin channel. The burr prevented rotation of the bolt, and caused the very rough cycling. I took the burr out with a small file, polished the inside and outside, now the action is very smooth. I am very disappointed by this, the shotgun barely has 50 rounds through it, and it has never been abused by me. The action was somewhat stiff at first, and got progressively worse. This burr must have been there to start with, and should have been noticed at the factory, and removed. Well... that's the weirdest thing I think I've ever seen, associated with these Saiga shotties. Hmmm... I'll be interested to read what Cobra has to comment about what could have caused this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Yep, that's pretty weird. Doesn't look at all like user abuse, just a factory defect. It looks like there was a lip of metal formed when the channel was cut, and it got folded over when the bolt was put together. You did what the factory should have done though, file it off and put it back together. Seeing stuff like that explains why these guns need to be broken in. Good job on the fix! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voland 1 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Seeing stuff like that explains why these guns need to be broken in. Good job on the fix! It is more of an illustration for why Izmash is going bankrupt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Wow that is pretty messed up right there! I tell ya, it's hard to believe how much QC has gone down with these guns in the past few years. What model is that one? It almost looks like another weird spot on the other side of the channel but I assume that's just camera flash off the other one... Was there any abnormal wear on the striker or firing pin? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voland 1 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Wow that is pretty messed up right there! I tell ya, it's hard to believe how much QC has gone down with these guns in the past few years. What model is that one? It almost looks like another weird spot on the other side of the channel but I assume that's just camera flash off the other one... Was there any abnormal wear on the striker or firing pin? This shotty is from the recently imported batch. A buddy of my with an S12, is now reporting a similar problem. This does not reflect well on izhmash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 This shotty is from the recently imported batch. A buddy of my with an S12, is now reporting a similar problem. This does not reflect well on izhmash. It's not a Swiss watch.... it's a cheap Russian shotgun. You have to expect to do some "fine-tuning" work on these guns to get them running perfectly. Many times when you buy a semi-auto pistol you can expect it to need some work (polishing of the feed ramp) to get it to cycle reliably. Look at it this way too..... The very fact that the factory can be sloppy like that and still turn out a working gun shows the strength of the AK platform. These guns are very easy to work on. A soldier in the field could have ground that bolt on a rock and fix it just like you did. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Wow that is pretty messed up right there! I tell ya, it's hard to believe how much QC has gone down with these guns in the past few years. What model is that one? It almost looks like another weird spot on the other side of the channel but I assume that's just camera flash off the other one... Was there any abnormal wear on the striker or firing pin? This shotty is from the recently imported batch. A buddy of my with an S12, is now reporting a similar problem. This does not reflect well on izhmash. Too much vodka.........again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) How hard would it be to get the bolt pin back inplace and make sure it stays on not wiggle out while firing? Edited November 1, 2009 by voonman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Not hard at all. Just need to tap it in just past flush, then peen the edge a little to keep it in. I had one like that that would just fall out in my hand whenever I removed the bolt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Question.....With the gun completely assembled, without any rounds or even a mag in it, and you pull the bolt back and then slowly bring it forward, does it "easily" seet back to the fully closed position? Mine doesn't....it gets almost closed and stops, I have to use quite a bit of preasure to cause it to finally close all the way.Is this normal? Not trying to hijack the thread, but it seems like a bolt issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Question.....With the gun completely assembled, without any rounds or even a mag in it, and you pull the bolt back and then slowly bring it forward, does it "easily" seet back to the fully closed position? Mine doesn't....it gets almost closed and stops, I have to use quite a bit of preasure to cause it to finally close all the way.Is this normal? Not trying to hijack the thread, but it seems like a bolt issue. That's called "riding the bolt", and it's totally normal. There isn't enough momentum to close the bolt if you do that. When you rack the bolt, just let it fly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Question.....With the gun completely assembled, without any rounds or even a mag in it, and you pull the bolt back and then slowly bring it forward, does it "easily" seet back to the fully closed position? Mine doesn't....it gets almost closed and stops, I have to use quite a bit of preasure to cause it to finally close all the way.Is this normal? Not trying to hijack the thread, but it seems like a bolt issue. Like he said ^ Don't ride the bolt. Before the bolt can fully close, it has to rotate and lock into position. (It's what keeps it closed while the charge goes off.) With the mag out of the gun, look up inside the magwell and you can see the bolt head turn as it seats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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