Reloading for the .308 long barrel saiga.

[SKIXIV 0]

Hi guys!

 

I've been making several different loads for my .308 (long barrel) Saiga. The best luck so far for a hunting load is a 150 grn Hornady SPBT with 41.0 grains of 2230C powder. The shot groups open up pretty bad when I use 165 SST's and 180 grn SP's by Sierra. Anyone having any success around the 150 grain range with different powders? I've been using the 2230C powder since it's so cheap, but I'm willing to try IMR4895/Varget if necessary.

 

The Aussie Surplus .308 ammo shoots great through my rifle. Now I need to duplicate that round and I'm in Sin City! Anyone use the surplus .308 ammo from Argentina??? If so, can you give me any feedback?

 

Thanks!

Dan

[TuffRedneck 0]

I shoot the argentina stuff. shoots great. I have no chrono but a friend of mine from jersey does. I think he did some chrono test on it out of his AR. Next time he's down I'll try to find out. It definetly seems alot hotter than the portugese and aussie. Only thing I dont like much about it is it shows its age. Lil bit of corrosion like it was stored damp. Not a single prob with it tho and I've shot a few hundred rounds of it.

[Maniac Jack 2]

I use Aussie surplus cuz I got it cheap (200 rounds in a metal case on stripper clips in bandoliers for 30 bucks). I haven't shot the South African stuff, but I heard good things about it. Mainly that it was on par quality wise with the Australian stuff. Other than that, I haven't had any experience with anything else.

[Tokageko 8]

I've had good results with IMR 4895 and a 150 grain bullet from my 22" siaga. It also seems to digest IMR 4064 and Win 748 pretty well. The heaviest bullet I've tried was 174 grains, and it shot as well as anything else... just like the 168's and 150's... I definately need to try different powder charges.

 

I was also considering trying a lighter bullet in the 125-130 range. Anybody have any experience with that?

[Maniac Jack 2]

I heard somewhere that shooting any bullet over 150 to 160 grain in semi-autos could do damage to the bolt and bolt carrier. Has anybody else heard of this?

[Tokageko 8]

hmmmm, that's an interesting proposition.

 

I'm geussing that the person who said that probably figured that a heavier bullet with a 'heavy' powder charge behind it would create higher pressures at the gas port, there-by imparting more energy to the piston/carrier, and possibly battering both of those and the receiver. Of course, that's just speculation on my part.

 

I can however tell you that this "rule" does not apply across the board to semi-auto rifles. The standard match load for use in both the M1 Garand and the M14/M21 was/is a 173-175 grain hollow-point boat-tail bullet.

 

It is true that with some gas-operated guns you have to be more careful of port-pressures, such as on the M1 Garand. This is regulated by using only one of two powders (that I know of), which produce a known pressure curve that is suitable for the gun. I've just asked our resident expert and apparently in the M1, a bullet heavier than 180 grains will create excessive port pressures, unless it is loaded down considerably. As far as other guns that may be more sensitive to port pressures, he said "the SVT-40, commonly known as the 'Tokarev' and the G/K 43". The jury is still out on AK based guns.

 

In particular for the saiga 308, I'm not very worried about it. The system seems very rugged and able to handle most things. With that having been said, I would like to take this time to point out that I probably won't try anything heavier than 175 grains because: 1. the 308 doesn't have the case capacity to make it worth while 2. recoil would get heavier 3. the twist rate of the rifling is too slow 4. who knows? maybe if the bullet is TOO heavy, it would cause mechanical problems in the Saiga 308.

 

Either way, the point is that I feel comfortable using anything up to and including 175 grain bullets. I'm going to do some work with moly coated bullets. I'll be sure to let you know how that turns out.

[IndyArms 10,186]

I may be able to comment to that logic....

I have read that in a Romanain PSL and others of the like... They are DESIGNED for the 146/148 grain bullets, and *NOT* the heavy ball that was designed for the mosin nagant rifles ( the 180-200 grain ammo)

Potential damage could occur to the receiver, as well as the bolt and bolt carrier, as they arent designed to take REPEATED poundings of that nature...

 

Maybe on rare occasion you could shoot a few rounds... but sustained heavy ball will ( supposedly) DAMAGE a Romanian PSL/Russian Dragunov/Chinese Tiger

 

 

Take that for what its worth... If its worth anything...

 

[Tokageko 8]

IndyArms: That makes a lot of sense. I hadn't heard anything about the PSL and Heavy Ball Ammo... I had thought the Heavy Ball was for use in machine guns? Either way, it would make sense that it would produce higher port pressures.

 

Ammo made specifically for bolt actions tends to be much hotter than anything allowable for a semi-auto (the bolt action being able to better withstand higher pressures). I don't know anything specific to the Dragunov/Tigr though.

 

I'm not even inclined to speculate on how either of the afore-mentioned weapons would handle it, because I don't know enough about the gas system they use. If I remember correctly, they both use a short-stroke piston that isn't attached to the bolt carrier.

 

There are weapons with this kind of gas system that react both ways: tolerating higher pressure loads easily, and not tolerating high pressure loads at all. The two best examples that come to mind immediately are the M14 and M1 Carbine(Tony Rumore's conversions aside ), respectively.

 

Anybody have more info on the Dragunov gas system? How about which category the FN FAL falls into?

[Maniac Jack 2]

I've got a question about ammo in general.

 

Is all military ammo usually ball ammo? And is there a difference between heavy ball and light/medium ball? I kind of had a question about South African .308 ammo also. Does anybody know what grain it is and if its heavy ball or or light or medium ball ammo? I had some Australian .308 that fired pretty damn good through my Saiga; it said it was ball ammo, but I'm not sure what type of ball ammo. Any info would help.

[klangblades 0]

I believe yhe aussie is 144 gr. In our testing it is the most accurate surplus ammo yet beating out the radway green sniper surplus by a small margin. Get it while you can.

[RooK 0]

Virtually all military ammo is FMJ due to the Hague and Geneva conventions restricting unneccesary suffering on combatants (your shooting them for crying out loud ). Some more current ammo in use does utilize a HP design (77gr Mk262 & 5.45 steel core), but they are of the target variety; not meant to expand but tumble on impact.

[2ND GUNMAN 0]

If anyone is looking for Premium brass, let me know. I have a few

pieces available.

===================

 

 

Once-fired Federal Match .308 brass. Fired from SWAT Team bolt rifle.

 

$35/250 plus actual shipping.

 

Email:

 

igetthemall@hotmail.com

 

Thanks.

 

[odin2 0]

Results today:

Distance 164 yards, saiga 308 22" barrel, 2.5-10x42 optics

Ammo 147gr Nato military, velocity 2706fps and 147gr reloaded (own recept) velocity 2755fps

Average accuracy for both:

2,3 inch groups (several)

 

This was the best group of 3 shots (1 square is 1 inch)