Surefire .223 Magazines

[Vista 0]

Here's some email correspondence with Surefire Gun Magazines regarding my difficulty with getting their 10-round .223 mags to latch. I've edited the emails somewhat to protect the innocent. I did find a Utube video on this exact subject - the guy in that video used a rounded file to knock down the lower corner of the mag rear locking lug and a flat file on the lower surface to narrow the height of the locking lug. I guess I'll try that lower corner mod next. I'd appreciate info on any fixes you guys may have discovered...

 

Vista

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Thomas

To: surefiregunmags@aol.com

Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2009 8:36 pm

Subject: Product No. SSGMP223

 

I obtained three of your Saiga .223 10-round magazines from Carolina Shooters Supply in early December. I've found that each of the mags is extremely difficult to seat in the magazine well on my Saiga. They go in fine until the last 1/8" or so, but then have to be pounded on to click in to the mag catch/release. I thought that it was simply a matter of "wearing" them in to smooth off hard edges, etc. but they're not getting any better. It seems like they are a little easier to seat when unloaded, but they still require a sharp tap (rap) to get them in. The stock Saiga mag works fine without any issues. I've tried to compare your mags with the Saiga mag, but don't see any obvious differences in regard to mag seating.

 

I'm not asking for any warranty exchange - I think the mags are basically OK, but something is hanging them up. You may have some corporate experience with this issue and may be able to tell me what to look for or what to modify. I'm reasonably handy with a Dremel...

 

Thanks for your attention, and hopefully, for a prompt response...

 

 

From: "surefiregunmags@aol.com" <surefiregunmags@aol.com>

To: Thomas

Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 10:13:01 AM

Subject: Re: Product No. SSGMP223

 

Hi Tom,

It sounds like the mag locking latch was installed a few thousandths to high. These rifles are basically hand made. The armorer is given a couple of mags prior to the build out and he builds the firearm around the mags.( Ripleys believe it or not, applies here).

Take one of the mags and with a flat file make one pass at a time on the Bottom Flat Surface of the Rear Locking Lug and try to fit after each pass. It should not take but a couple of passes for the mag to lock up. Do not take material off any other surfaces because you can change the angle of feed which will destroy the mag.

MAKE SURE THE FIREARM IS EMPTY BEFORE YOU BEGAN ANY WORK WITH THE FIREARM. DO NOT CYCLE LIVE AMMUNITION WHEN TESTING FUNCTION OF MAG, USE DUMMY ROUNDS.

Please let us know if this solves the problem.

 

Regards;

SureFire gun Mags LLC

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Thomas

To: surefiregunmags@aol.com

Sent: Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:01 pm

Subject: Re: Product No. SSGMP223

 

Thanks for the prompt reply. I did as you suggested, but I had to take a LOT more than a few passes off the bottom of the rear locking lug. It also required taking material off the crossways rib just above the rear locking lug. I was working with the bolt, bolt carrier, and dust cover removed so I could see what was going on. When I was through, EACH of the three mags seated just like the Saiga mag. Great!

 

Unfortunately, when I reinstalled the bolt and bolt carrier, I was almost back to where I started. On close inspection it appears that the Surefire mag follower is about 1/16" higher than the Saiga follower. In order to latch the Surefire mag, the bolt has to push the follower down, requiring extra force. The Saiga follower does not contact the bolt, so the only force required is that to push the mag latch back. I'm not sure why the Saiga follower does not come up all the way to the underside of the mag feed lips, as does the Surefire follower. The same thing happens with loaded mags and with the bolt locked open. Any ideas?

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

 

From: "surefiregunmags@aol.com" <surefiregunmags@aol.com>

To: Thomas

Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 11:23:45 AM

Subject: Re: Product No. SSGMP223

 

Hi Tom,

Our rifle mags are manufactured with a last round bolt hold open. In order for it to work the raised section of our follower must rise above the top of the mag body to engage the bolt and hold it open.

This is a safety feature that we are known for.

 

Regards;

SureFire Gun Mags LLC

 

From: Thomas

To: surefiregunmags@aol.com

Sent: Mon, Jan 4, 2010 8:21 pm

Subject: Re: Product No. SSGMP223

 

I'll have to wait until I can get back to the range, but it seems to me that the Saiga mag also has the bolt hold open feature. Unless you have some objection, I think I'll post the gist of our discussion on [forum.saiga-12.com] to get some input. There's a lot of expertise there from people who have probably been down this road before...

 

Thanks again,

 

Tom

 

 

Hi Tom,

The Russian Mags do not have last round bolt hold opens built into them.

You may post anywhere you would like. The .223 polymer mag was introduced approximately 3 yr's ago and we have not had more than 20 returned to us in all that time. That's 20 in over 40,000 .223 units sold. That's why we know we manufacture the best Saiga mags BAR NONE!.

 

Regards;

SureFire Gun Mags LLC

[saigafreake 27]

let us know how everything turns out.

[christcorp 26]

They are correct in everything they said. The russian mags don't have a "Last round bolt open" on their mags. And each rifle is a little different from another. Usually only by a pubic hair. I've recently bought a saiga .223, but I've played with 3 different ones now. One fits my saiga 30 round mag just like the factory mag. One requires a more firm approach. The 3rd requires you to pretend you are in a Rambo type movie and SLAP that puppy in good. The good however is that the tolerance of the rifle keeps all magazines in very tight. I've had quite a few traditional AK's where the magazines were very sloppy. AK's and variants will still always fire; the damn things are the most reliable gun out there. But I like having the more firm magazine.

 

On a side note. If you change out enough parts in your gun to get the imported parts down to about 7; then there are some all metal 30 round saiga magazines that work real well; just like the original. But there aren't any made in the USA. So, you have to get the part count down further than the basic "Swap out the stock and magazine with USA parts". Now; being you are dealing with 10 round magazines, you don't have to buy Surefire, promag, or any poly magazine. You can buy steel mags from any company in the world. I personally like the surefires. I while they might be initially a little tight clicking in, to the saiga, I don't mind a couple swipes with the file. I filed only until it barely wanted to click in with a little effort. Being plastic, I know that in using it more and more, the plastic will wear the extra bit. I'd rather have it too snug and require a small amount of file (I used an emery board for finger nails); than to have a mag that was too loose and didn't feed properly.

Edited January 6, 2010 by christcorp

[GregM1 241]

The .223 polymer mag was introduced approximately 3 yr's ago and we have not had more than 20 returned to us in all that time. That's 20 in over 40,000 .223 units sold.

 

 

 

20/40000= 0.0005% failure rate. not to shabby.

[Vista 0]

I'm astonished that SGM has sold 40,000 .223 mags in three years! Assuming that each buyer gets as many as four mags, that's10,000 Saiga .223 rifles out there...I further assume (with zero facts available) that there's a lot more 7.62 Saigas, and maybe more .308 Saigas, sold than the .223s. That's a lot of Saigas!

 

Vista

Edited January 9, 2010 by Vista

[Vista 0]

I found a YouTube video which demonstrates a fix for exactly the same problem that I described. The fix is to take a few swipes of a file to round off the lower corner of the mag locking lug. The upper corner of the locking lug pushes the mag catch out of the way as the mag rotates up, and then the rounded lower corner allows the mag latch to snap back in under the locking lug. I tried this on all three Surefire mags, and now they're working OK - not as smooth as the Saiga mag, but I suspect they will wear themselves in...

 

Vista