Springs

[Dave H 0]

I posted about saiga repair kits a bit back asking what to get.

We came to the conclusion that 5.45 firing pins will work in saiga 7.62's.

But I forgot to ask what about the springs and piiston? I am taking it the normal 7.62 springs an piston work correct?

 

I am only asking because I can get a deal if I get this 5.45 repair kit that has springs and a pin.

[my762buzz 141]

But I forgot to ask what about the springs and piiston? I am taking it the normal 7.62 springs an piston work correct?

The AK 74 piston (shorter) is the right one and the hammer, recoil, disconnector, extractor, mag latch, and rear sight block springs are universal.

The AK 74 carrier would also be the only carrier available that could possibly fit all rifle caliber saigas. The caliber specific parts like the bolts,

firing pins(.223 and .308), and extractors is going to take a devine miracle to make them appear.

 

The saigas are an AK103 base gun which is nothing more than a fancy AK74. The AK74 parts or the universal spring parts are the only

ones that will work. The AK47 parts like the bolt, firing pin, extractor, and carrier will not interchange. The AK47 and AK74

buttstock are actually different also. The 74 stock has a longer insert that pushes up against the saiga trunnion. A Ak47 stock

insert is about 4 or 5 mm short from properly reaching the trunnion on the inside. Tapco does not yet make a proper Ak74 stock

to fit the saiga. The kvar 74 version is the only proper fitting US made one I know of.

Edited March 24, 2010 by my762buzz

[Dave H 0]

Okay in short you are just saying it takes 74 parts; Thats interesting background,I had know idea that it was based off the 103.

[ae13291 3]

i might be able to machine some firing pins out of tool steel if you guys are interested. if someone is not comfortable using the 5.45 pin.

[Dave H 0]

i might be able to machine some firing pins out of tool steel if you guys are interested. if someone is not comfortable using the 5.45 pin.

 

 

You could if you wanted to.

I was just going to get the Ak-74 repair kit from k-var with the 5.45 springs and firing pin.

I mean the worse that can happen(tell me if im wrong) with the 5.45 pin is it wont fire.

But you should try making some pins and testing them, if they work you could start selling them over the web or something and make yourself a little profit.

[my762buzz 141]

This is getting silly. A 0.003 inch difference on the pin face is not enough to cause a problem. I really do not think Izmash has a separate firing pin forging machine for 7.62x39 versus 5.45. This difference might have more to do with the fact its an East German surplus pin versus a Russian. I still have a surplus 5.45 firing pin in my saiga and it has fired off several boxes of Russian and a few boxes of American made ammo. No ruptures and no misfires. Here is a few pictures of the difference.

 

 

[Dave H 0]

I didnt realize the difference in size was so small, im surprised more people are not aware that you can use the 5.45 springs, pistons, and pins in the saiga 7.62x39.

[Dave H 0]

But I forgot to ask what about the springs and piiston? I am taking it the normal 7.62 springs an piston work correct?

The AK 74 piston (shorter) is the right one and the hammer, recoil, disconnector, extractor, mag latch, and rear sight block springs are universal.

The AK 74 carrier would also be the only carrier available that could possibly fit all rifle caliber saigas. The caliber specific parts like the bolts,

firing pins(.223 and .308), and extractors is going to take a devine miracle to make them appear.

 

The saigas are an AK103 base gun which is nothing more than a fancy AK74. The AK74 parts or the universal spring parts are the only

ones that will work. The AK47 parts like the bolt, firing pin, extractor, and carrier will not interchange. The AK47 and AK74

buttstock are actually different also. The 74 stock has a longer insert that pushes up against the saiga trunnion. A Ak47 stock

insert is about 4 or 5 mm short from properly reaching the trunnion on the inside. Tapco does not yet make a proper Ak74 stock

to fit the saiga. The kvar 74 version is the only proper fitting US made one I know of.

you first said the extractor is universal, then you said it will take a miracle to appear, or are you saying the extractors for 762x39 and 5.45 are interchangeable and the extractors for 223 308 are impossible to find?

[my762buzz 141]

 

You first said the extractor is universal, then you said it will take a miracle to appear, or are you saying the extractors for 762x39 and 5.45 are interchangeable and the extractors for 223 308 are impossible to find?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 7.62x39 or 5.45 saigas use the same style Ak74 extractor, but the blade itself is recontoured for the 7.62x39 extractor. As I said before, the 5.45 kvar extractor

will work perfect with 5.45, but needs a slight blade recontour for the blade to properly slip into the 7.62x39 case recess. A dremel and a few minutes will reshape

the difference. The .308 and .223 firing pins I think are spring loaded and that requires a bit of work to modify a 5.45 firing pin. Not sure about the .308 and .223 extractors other than its not going to be easy to mod a 5.45 surplus extractor. The difference between 7.62x39 and 5.45 as far as the surplus extractors you can get is

it should drop right in with a 5.45 bolt and not need any work, but with the 7.62x39 the blade needs to be recurved(diameter change) to wrap around a 9.56 mm cylinder

and the blade face .

Study the diamgram below and notice the red shaded areas that need to be removed on the 5.45 extractor for it to properly work with a 7.62x39 case rim recess.

 

 

 

 

All the springs you are looking for are universal AK47,AKM, AK74,.....AK103

The trigger parts are universal too.

The bolts, bolt carriers, firing pins, and extractors do not exchange from [AK47, AKM]]-----to ----[AK74,ak103.]

The saiga and 74/103 style carriers should exchange perfectly. I have yet to find one indication that they dont.

The bolts are where it gets complicated. The 5.45 surplus bolts should obviously interchange with a 5.45 saiga.

The same surplus 5.45 bolt has a breech face made for the (10mm) 5.45 case head. A 7.62x39 case head is 11.35mm.

The 5.45 bolt breech face would need to be widened enough to allow a 7.62x39 to press against it correctly so that it could

work in a 7.62x39 gun. Anyway, I am sure you see that its easier to mod Ak74 5.45 surplus parts to fit a 7.62x39 saiga

than it would be to mod for a .308 or 5.56 saiga. The .223 and .308 bolts, extractors, and firing pins are going to be

near impossible to buy anytime soon unless Cadiz Arms or some other company/individual happens to make that happen.

The 7.62x39 saiga bolts are also not available, but since the firing pins (5.45)work and the 5.45 extractors can be modded

its not really that hard to prevent the rifle from becoming an expensive paper weight in the rare event that a firing pin may break,

extractor may chip, or a bolt/or carrier cracks. One thing is for sure, the Russians make these things tougher than most other

countries. I am damm proud to own a Russian AK varient. Anytime I hear M.K. gripe about other countries making knock offs and

Russia losing money, I want to tell the man I own official licensed copies now please have the factory send some spare parts

in case some of us loyal customers happen to lose a part or two and don't want to buy knock off spare parts.

Edited March 25, 2010 by my762buzz

[sailor 6]

my762buzz - Bravo! you said it just right. You are also a font of knowledge for us not so enlightened. Good to have some working info, as the commercial suppliers of parts don't seem to realize how hard it is to come up with the correct replacement parts for a Saiga. The parts listings are so poorly described, usually not related to a Saiga, as to leave most of us wondering what is the correct part.

[my762buzz 141]

my762buzz - Bravo! you said it just right. You are also a font of knowledge for us not so enlightened. Good to have some working info, as the commercial suppliers of parts don't seem to realize how hard it is to come up with the correct replacement parts for a Saiga. The parts listings are so poorly described, usually not related to a Saiga, as to leave most of us wondering what is the correct part.

 

Thanks man. I am glad to help when ever I can.

[my762buzz 141]

Someone else donated a few photos for this illustration. Thank you Toshbar.

Here is an illustrustration of how different the two case heads are in relation to the 5.45 bolt.

I no longer think trying to modify a 5.45 bolt to work with 7.62x39 is even worth a try. Its a good thing

these Russian bolts never seem to break but I still want genuine spares anyway.

 

The gray cartridge is obviously 7.62x39 and the greenish one is 5.45x39.

[my762buzz 141]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a follow up to the 5.45 pin testing. At this point, over 200 rounds of 7.62x39 since this past weekend. No failures to fire and no popped primers.

I took a picture of two cases fired from a Russian 7.62x39 Vepr with its original firing pin. Notice that the cases on the left have no chamber step mark.

The cases on the right are from the saiga with the 5.45 firing pin that has fired off over 200 rounds of russian steel case and brass case ammo.