S-12: How Prevalent in official Russian use?

[FRC64 2]

Do any members, especially those who are Russian or living there, have information on how prevalent the use of the Saiga-12 is with Russian Military, OMON (Police) or Private Security?

 

I find bits and pieces on the internet, but far from a complete picture. For instance, there is this clip below that seems to show, in the first minute, an OMON (even though the title says Spetznaz) stick doing an entry drill and they all seem to be carrying Saiga's:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKMG_rGdfsE

 

An acquaintance, who has family living nearby is visiting from Russia and I just took him to my local range to shoot. He was impressed with what I have put together, considering that I can't convert to a pistol grip here. He works for a private security firm in St. Petersburg and they do utilize the Saiga 12 gauge. When I showed him what other's were up to with the Saiga here in the US, he was quite impressed and really got pretty stoked over the SBS S-12's. We're going out to a friends farm in PA next weekend where he'll get to shoot a S-12 with folding stock and 10" barrel.

 

If he opens up a bit fine, but I really do not want to start pressing him for info as he still works in the security field back home.

 

Thanks in advance for any info.

Edited April 5, 2010 by FRC64

[aefimcev 2]

Im live in Russia,

 

Russian military not use saiga at all. (spetsnaz with saiga ?! hahaha)

Police use saiga (КС-18 modification), but very limited - omon, sobr etc use AK rifles instead.

Private security wide use Saigas.

 

Officialy Saiga (and any other shortguns) in Russia is a hunting shotguns (although 90% brand new saigas not hunting and have pistol grips, folding stocks, rails, sights and other tacticool features). When i get license for buying my Vepr 12 Molot shotgun,

i must get a hunting license first. Its imposible in russia buy shortgun or rifle without hunting license.

 

Shortguns widespread in Russia for private using and private security firms, rifles not. To buy rifle you must have shortgun for 5 year.

 

Sorry for my English

Edited April 5, 2010 by aefimcev

[BrutalGardener 205]

Saiga 410, particularly the model that looks like an AK-74M, played a ubiquitous role in the Russian mob wars, during the "Crazy Nineties". It was the "Tommy Gun" of the Russian Great Depression. Even fairly recently, there was an incident, where a Russian cop and his family were ran off the road on a highway and murdered using Saiga 410s, loaded with buckshot.

Edited April 5, 2010 by SpetsnazGRU

[Juggernaut 11,054]

[seanie 6]

I was under the assumption that if any shotguns were in use by Russian military, it would be the KS-K:

http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/ks-k.shtml

Edited April 5, 2010 by seanie

[volkov 318]

Isn't that just the AK of the saiga 7.62? or the AMD 65, or the yugo?

 

In other words same gun (reciever, barrel, piston, caliber) with slight mods, different name?

[FRC64 2]

Guys, thanks for the responses. I do have several acquaitances who are Spetsnaz vets and I've been told that every unit will have those who are specifically trained in shotgun use. If the mission warrants it, they have Saigas available.

 

My friend, currently visiting from Russia, after leaving the military, joined an OMON unit and spent several years there before moving on to the private security sector. The move was mostly about money as the private sector pays very well. He said he first trained with shotguns in the military and the use of them became greater and greater as he moved to Law Enforcement and then the private sector. He said OMON is a big user of the Saiga because there role quite frequently takes them into urban settings with operations in populated buildings with thin walls. The 5.45x39 round is a poor choice if your concerned about collateral effects. He added that the S-12 is a very important tool in the private sector and is the focus of a great deal of training, nothing breaks the train of thought of an attacker like the response of several security agents sending a volley of rapid fire 00 Buck downrange.

 

You might be wondering,"...this guys already got a lot of info, what else does he want?" Most of my info on the subject is based on several contacts. I'd just like to add to and confirm some of it.

 

aefimcev, compared to my Russian, your English is flawless. Completely understandable.

 

SpetsnazGRU, also, thanks for your info. Many here in the States downplay the Saiga .410 . In many places where private rifle ownership is difficult but shotguns are a go, the .410 is somewhat of a poorman's AK and quite capable at short to medium range.

 

Fascinating stuff.

[BolivianAK 2]