Krebs/ Chaos/ Sight Question

[caesar 1]

So although I've had my S12 for like a year now and spent twice that time lurking and researching all the components for my conversion, I'm still a Noob and the one thing that I can't quite decide on is sights.

 

I was about to pull the trigger and go with Krebs sights, but I do have a little Mall Ninja in me and like the option of a Red Dot some day(although I know I probably wouldn't need it for a 12G).I know I could use a side mount but...

 

Wouldn't a Chaos extended rail with some kind of Krebs style Ghost Ring sight that would co-witness with a Red Dot be ideal. I know they have HK sights for it, I've read about people using AR style sights, seen the XS and Bullseye rear sights, even saw a post from "SICARIO-" about this. But, there doesn't seem to be a definite answer on a combination that will utilize Ghost Rings with a Red Dot that all works together. I'm confused or missing something...or stupid or just drunk, lol. Thanks for any input.

[kmoore 3]

I'm not sure what you are picturing so my post might be off base.

 

Obviously, the height is the issue that needs addressing. The Chaos rail will have you remove your rear sight (and a Krebs if you had added it), and his HK sites sit pretty low (as they should). The Krebs sights likely won't match, as that front sight isn't matched and will likely sit WAY too low (I've got a factory front sight on mine that I bought from over seas, I know it's not the same as Krebs but kind of close, and it's WAY too short to be in the sight picture with the HK sights.

 

I'm just not sure you'll find a sight that sits low enough to co witness.

 

BTW, the rail adds a bit of height (almost all sight options do) so you may need to think about adding some height to the stock so that a good cheek weld puts you in good shape.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...BTW, the rail adds a bit of height (almost all sight options do) so you may need to think about adding some height to the stock so that a good cheek weld puts you in good shape.

 

Krebs sights do not add any appreciable height. Your cheek-weld remains the same, (very low). I think that some people lose sight of the fact that a S-12 is a 12-ga shotgun. The maximum effective range is ~100 yrds. Imo, no optic is necessary.

 

ymmv.

[theplastik 67]

...BTW, the rail adds a bit of height (almost all sight options do) so you may need to think about adding some height to the stock so that a good cheek weld puts you in good shape.

 

Krebs sights do not add any appreciable height. Your cheek-weld remains the same, (very low). I think that some people lose sight of the fact that a S-12 is a 12-ga shotgun. The maximum effective range is ~100 yrds. Imo, no optic is necessary.

 

ymmv.

 

True, it doesn't need an optic for long range.

But I feel a red dot is useful for quick target acquisition.

I use a 5 MOA Tasco red dot that is low enough for a good sight picture and also to co-witness with the Chaos sights.

 

I guess it depends what you want, the amount of work you want to put forth to get it, and how much you're willing to pay.

 

Chaos is a bit of a hassle to install the rail system, mainly because you have to remove the old sights, but I feel it is well worth it for the adjustability of the sights and to have a red dot.

 

Here is a picture of co-witness of the chaos sights on a chaos rail with the tasco red dot.

Cheek weld is normal I suppose. I have the UBR on a CSS pignose topped out.

 

 

[caesar 1]

Thanks for the input, been slammed at work all week and didn't even see the replies.

 

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but I'm still a little confused. I guess what I'm asking is...

 

Seems like a larger Ghost Ring(Krebs/XS/LP)sight is a good solid choice for a 12G's range, wondering why Chaos and others are trying to fit rail mounted HK and AR sights? I know they look cool, but have read mixed reviews on effectiveness on a short range S12 and have always read good about Krebs. Plus, seems like they (Ghost Ring style sights) could be mated with a low mounted Red Dot and a rail to have one great option package.

 

In other words, want what "Plastik" has, just with a bigger Ghost Ring (Krebs/XS/LP) rear sight. Read about people drilling out their HK sights and AR sights being too small for a 12G too...they just don't seem like the first choice for short range (under 100 yds) effectiveness (at least from what i've read)?

[Nailbomb 10,221]

In other words, want what "Plastik" has, just with a bigger Ghost Ring (Krebs/XS/LP) rear sight. Read about people drilling out their HK sights and AR sights being too small for a 12G too...they just don't seem like the first choice for short range (under 100 yds) effectiveness (at least from what i've read)?

Having both H&K and Chaos sights, I can tell you, the chaos sights have larger holes in the rear drum.

 

Just FYI...

[caesar 1]

Ahhhh, maybe that's what I'm missing.

 

Anyone got a comparison of the largest Chaos hole compared to a Krebs (especially a Krebs with the inner sight ring punched out)?

[theplastik 67]

Ahhhh, maybe that's what I'm missing.

 

Anyone got a comparison of the largest Chaos hole compared to a Krebs (especially a Krebs with the inner sight ring punched out)?

 

Check out this pic.

 

 

 

Here's the THREAD.

[caesar 1]

Thanks for takin' the time to post the pics "Plastik". Been watching that thread. That's what sparked my interest.

 

Didn't realize the Chaos sights were just "HK Style" and actually possibly bigger. Cameron seems on the ball and I'm sure they're well thought out. Would still like to see a comparison to a Krebs. I'll wait until the first orders get out, I'm sure there will be a bunch of posts about functionality and maybe somebody will do a comparison.

 

Love the look of the Chaos sights and I'm sure they work great, but still kinda' like the thought of a flip-up rail mounted Ghost Ring that would line up with a Red Dot. I dunno, I'm still a noob.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...Would still like to see a comparison to a Krebs...

 

Well, here are a couple low-quality, drunken pictures taken of my Krebs sights, (rear sight insert removed):

 

I believe the Krebs S-12 irons have the widest, (best at 12-ga ranges), aperture ghost-ring rear sight.. and you can reinstall the peep insert for longer-range slug accuracy.

 

ymmv.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I believe the Krebs S-12 irons have the widest, (best at 12-ga ranges), aperture ghost-ring rear sight.. and you can reinstall the peep insert for longer-range slug accuracy.

 

ymmv.

I can agree with that but would like to point out that there is a open sight on the H&K style sights for exactly that sort of use. The Krebs is intuitive and nice, but the Chaos offers more by allowing use of the open "1" setting and 3 smaller peep sights for longer range slug use.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I believe the Krebs S-12 irons have the widest, (best at 12-ga ranges), aperture ghost-ring rear sight.. and you can reinstall the peep insert for longer-range slug accuracy.

 

ymmv.

I can agree with that but would like to point out that there is a open sight on the H&K style sights for exactly that sort of use. The Krebs is intuitive and nice, but the Chaos offers more by allowing use of the open "1" setting and 3 smaller peep sights for longer range slug use.

 

That's a good point. There are tradeoffs no matter which of these sights you go with and people tend to be biased toward what they own.

 

I like the Krebs because of how low they are, (good cheek-weld when shooting), the long sight radius possible with em, and the fact that I don't need to weld on my receiver or use a quad-rail to use em.

 

To each his own though, and if I had a 2nd S-12, I'd strongly consider trying some Chaos sights... I s'pose I could on my existing S-12, but it'd be a PITA.

Edited August 27, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[caesar 1]

Again, thanks "Poc" for posting the pics. You're actually the reason I was leaning towards Krebs, always seen you sing their praises.

 

Did notice the "open slot" that "Nailbomb" pointed out. Guess I can't comment cuz I've never even seen or used a set in person. Like I said, I sure Cameron has thought them out and I'm sure they would be more than adequate for my needs. They do look great and the adjustability seems to cover all bases.

 

Guess we'll just wait for the reviews. I'm sure I'll be in line for the next batch.