Tactical Entry SBS

[TheHulk 1]

Fellas, oh and Ladies

Forgive me if I am intruding on starting a new topic here but I am in need of suggestions and information. Cuttin to the chase recently I have made my Sheriff's Office Tactical Operations Team. For the first 6 months Im a proby and will go to SWAT school next month. After completing SWAT school and making probation the team leader wants me to shoulder the responsibility as a "Long Weapons Specialist". (Another story LOL) Through the few training days I have been to catching up on basic SWAT operations; entries, breaching, live fire etc. It has quickly been brought to the team leader's attention that I may not be cut out making entries with a rifle. Im the big boy on the team and loading me down with a ballistic vest and equipment it for the most part doubles your size. Couple that with a rifle and it makes being a big guy even more cumbersom trying to clear a house. Ive been having to go through doors sideways some of the time. The team leader made it known that the team hasnt had a shotgunner for years, mainly because everyone is squeamish about handling a shotgun, or they havent had someone big enough to do it. The team leader told me to start looking at shotguns and keep him in the loop.

As soon as he told me this the SAIGA was the only thing that I would want to use. My dad bought and converted a SAIGA 12 about 6 months ago and I LOVE IT. So my thoughts are buying one and doing an SBS and converting it for entries. Have any of you guys had any experience with this? or heard about any SWAT teams using the same thing? The research Ive done I probably want to go with a 10" bbl, SGS recoil absorber stock, and a modular picatinny hand guard for a vert grip and other components. After boring yall with my story LOL I am completely open to suggestions and any other information yall want to offer. So fire away!!

 

Thnx in advance,

J. Mounger aka The Hulk

[Shandlanos 1,470]

A short-barreled Saiga-12 could make an excellent entry gun. Making a functional short-barreled S-12 from a factory gun requires a good amount of mechanical skill and knowledge. The gas system has to be shortened and tuned to function. There are only a handful of manufacturers that make and sell these guns. If you are willing to spend the money, having a weapon professionally manufactured for you would be your best bet. Tromix and Red Jacket Firearms are two of the best in the industry (there are others that are also very good).

 

I have a Red Jacket Saiga-12 with an 8" barrel, and it is a great weapon. If you plan to use a muzzle device, most S-12 muzzle devices extend about 2" past the muzzle; you may want to go with an 8" barrel to bring your overall barrel length with the device to about 10". I have a Tromix shark break on my gun. A Limbsaver recoil pad is a very helpful addition to your buttstock. With a shortened barrel, you end up with an extremely lightweight gun, resulting in a great deal of felt recoil. Birdshot isn't too bad, but 3" magnum loads can leave you with a very colorful shoulder.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

We have sold Saiga SBS' to SWAT/SOT teams all over the country including the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team in Quantico Virginia.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Fellas, oh and Ladies

Forgive me if I am intruding on starting a new topic here but I am in need of suggestions and information. Cuttin to the chase recently I have made my Sheriff's Office Tactical Operations Team. For the first 6 months Im a proby and will go to SWAT school next month. After completing SWAT school and making probation the team leader wants me to shoulder the responsibility as a "Long Weapons Specialist". (Another story LOL) Through the few training days I have been to catching up on basic SWAT operations; entries, breaching, live fire etc. It has quickly been brought to the team leader's attention that I may not be cut out making entries with a rifle. Im the big boy on the team and loading me down with a ballistic vest and equipment it for the most part doubles your size. Couple that with a rifle and it makes being a big guy even more cumbersom trying to clear a house. Ive been having to go through doors sideways some of the time. The team leader made it known that the team hasnt had a shotgunner for years, mainly because everyone is squeamish about handling a shotgun, or they havent had someone big enough to do it. The team leader told me to start looking at shotguns and keep him in the loop.

As soon as he told me this the SAIGA was the only thing that I would want to use. My dad bought and converted a SAIGA 12 about 6 months ago and I LOVE IT. So my thoughts are buying one and doing an SBS and converting it for entries. Have any of you guys had any experience with this? or heard about any SWAT teams using the same thing? The research Ive done I probably want to go with a 10" bbl, SGS recoil absorber stock, and a modular picatinny hand guard for a vert grip and other components. After boring yall with my story LOL I am completely open to suggestions and any other information yall want to offer. So fire away!!

 

Thnx in advance,

J. Mounger aka The Hulk

 

 

There is a SWAT/SRT officer who is a regular contributor to the forum - GeorgiaPD, who has used a Saiga 12 in his work for some time. He's a great guy, and has tremendous first hand knowledge and perspective on the effecitve use of the Saiga 12 by SWAT officers and law enforcement professionals.

 

For your reference, I am posting images of a couple of guns. The first is an SBS entry gun built for a Texas DPS officer, and the second a gun custom built for an individual in an similar armed profession. What the guns have in common is that they are both built for breaching and entry use, with the second gun being particularly well suited for room clearing. The third photo is a gun that has all of the speed and versatility of the first two (a breacher brake can be attached), but also features a select fire function for particularly challenging situations where the subject may be only partially vulnerable due to the use of body armor or cover, or in situations where an officer has to deal effectively with multiple armed assailants.

 

Since the last photo was taken, a number of LE oriented enhancements have been made to the configuration of the select fire gun, and it has been redubbed the LSA "King Cobra" due to its incredible speed, versatility, and overwhelming firepower.

 

All of the guns will cycle breachers, buck, slugs (and even low cost birdshot for training), and are being actively used by, or have been extensively tested by SWAT officers.

 

[TheHulk 1]

Wow, I really appreciate the input fellas. Most definitely the pictures!!! There are so many visual choices out there to make its a little tough to narrow down if you cant see them.

 

Im really diggin the "Locksmith 11.5". Love the fact it will eat pretty much anything and is right at the length Im looking for. In my situation length is the big issue..... WOW never knew I would say that length is a bad thing LOL!!!. Heres my next question... How short do you have to go before going to a shorter handguard? Judging by what Ive seen it looks like if you go 10 and below is when the handguard correction has to be made. Of course could be wrong.

 

Another thing I like is the Magpul stock on the "Intimidator". Option to fold and telescope, thats a big PLUS!!

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Wow, I really appreciate the input fellas. Most definitely the pictures!!! There are so many visual choices out there to make its a little tough to narrow down if you cant see them.

 

Im really diggin the "Locksmith 11.5". Love the fact it will eat pretty much anything and is right at the length Im looking for. In my situation length is the big issue..... WOW never knew I would say that length is a bad thing LOL!!!. Heres my next question... How short do you have to go before going to a shorter handguard? Judging by what Ive seen it looks like if you go 10 and below is when the handguard correction has to be made. Of course could be wrong.

 

Another thing I like is the Magpul stock on the "Intimidator". Option to fold and telescope, thats a big PLUS!!

 

11.5" is about the minimum length you can go with the stock handguard and gas system. To go shorter and still be able to cycle a full range of ammo, the gas system needs to be moved back, and you will most likely need to go to a modified hand guard or rail. I personally prefer a full length handguard. Tony (Tromix) makes a very nice hand guard for the 8" shorties.

 

I really like the Magpul CTR adjustable stock on a pushbutton folder. It's rugged, reliable, and hard to beat for versatility.

[HotGuns 9]

So my thoughts are buying one and doing an SBS and converting it for entries. Have any of you guys had any experience with this?

 

 

Great minds thinks alike.

 

I just did exactly what you are talking about. This gun will soon be used for my semi-annual weapons qualifaction for the small town Marshals office that I work for.

This one has the 11.5 inch barrel and it is very handy, not just for entires but also to keep in the car, its very easy to get in and out and it can be done quick.

 

As you can see, the handguard is stock, except for the fact that I milled some slots in it just for looks. I'm not a big fan of hanging stuff on my guns, so I went with the stock handguard.

 

Here is a cell phone pic.

 

Edited March 24, 2011 by HotGuns

[mike12345 18]

You dont need breaching muzzle breaks, they add length to the gun for no reason. I shoot TAP or flight control buckshot so no need for a choke. The 11.5 or 12in is a better option because you have more space for a taclight. The pressure of the 8in will blow the fingers off the back of flight control type wads, the 11.5 wont. You'll only lose 100fps going to 12in from an 18in barrel.

 

You dont really need the side folding stock because you cant sling it folded and have to fire from the hip with only a pistolgrip.

 

 

my 11.5

 

and 8in

Edited April 22, 2011 by mike123456

[HotGuns 9]

That's a PolyChoke breacher on there that does quite well will all loads, both low brass and high brass.

Short barreled shotguns are very limited in range with an open choke, having the ability to use more or less choke can be an asset.

For a patrol shotgun I would want a respectable pattern out to around 40 yards, something that no SBS will do without a choke. The PolyChoke Breacher fills the bill very well for this purpose.