tbizzle 18 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 First of all I've used the search function but have not found anyone with the exact scenario that I am experiencing. With that said, here goes.............I just installed the TAC auto plug on my S12. Let me say that I have installed various other items on my gun since the last time I have shot it (with zero failures). Those items include: TAC autoplug, Tapco gas piston, UTG quad rail (without toprail installed) & Mako ergonomic foregrip. Also this is the first time that I have used my MD20 drum. Luckily my S12 came out of the box able to cycle reliably everything from the cheapest Walmart birdshot to the 3" turkey loads. I have two magazines that I have primarily used since I purchased the gun new: the 5 round factory and a SGM tactical 10 rounder. It cycles everything reliably every time with a FTE about once or twice every 100 rounds. Pretty damn reliable IMO. BUT I decided I needed to put the upgrades on the gun as previously mentioned. I went to the range with the autoplug already installed (I left the factory plug on the kitchen counter, dumb I know). I did exactly how the guy in the TAC video describes how to install the auto plug, "screw it in till it bottoms out, back out until a positive click with detent etc". Also did exactly as the guy described in getting it "dialed in". I did all this with the intent to get the MD20 drum with birdshot & auto plug to cycle with my S12 (my perfect blasting stuff all to hell setup you might say). The cheap ammo that I have always used is Remington 7 1/2 game loads. This has ALWAYS cycled reliably though my gun with the factory plug. I started out with the autoplug screw set flush (level) with the outside of the plug so that I would easily know where I started (my baseline you could say). The first round did a FTE, so I dialed the screw clockwise 1/2 a turn and re-shot my gun as directed in the video. I did this about 15 to 20 times (I lost count) before the screw was tightened all the way down into the plug. With it tightened all the way down it still was FTE with the shell catching the bolt and hanging on the body of the gun. I thought maybe it was the MD20 magazine so I put some 00 buckshot and slugs in it. It shot and cycled flawlessly with the heavier shells and the screw set back to my baseline. At this point I had determined that it had to be the autoplug because it would not cycle the birdshot at all with the drum. I decided to see if the plug would work with the factory 5 rounder and the SGM 10 rounder. So I reset the screw back to baseline and started over. I did the same exact scenario and got the screw tightened all the way in this time as well. The gun cycled these two magazines alot better than the drum, although I would call it far from reliable. It would cycle 2 or 3 in a row before it would hang and would also cycle just 1 before it would hang. It wasn't consistent. I did get it to cycle the 5 rounder for four rounds until a FTE on the last shell (this happened a few times). At this point in time I am pretty sure that it is the autoplug though I cannot be certain that it isn't a combination of the 20 round drum AND the autoplug (because I left my factory plug sitting on the kitchen table. Again very dumb). I probably won't be able to go to the range again for a few weeks. Just wanted to know if anyone has had this happen to them? And is it possible that adding the rail and the foregrip may be playing into this as well (messing up the harmonics of the gun or something)? I'm at a loss but want to get this fixed. Any comments or info is appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 First of all I've used the search function but have not found anyone with the exact scenario that I am experiencing. With that said, here goes.............I just installed the TAC auto plug on my S12. Let me say that I have installed various other items on my gun since the last time I have shot it (with zero failures). Those items include: TAC autoplug, Tapco gas piston, UTG quad rail (without toprail installed) & Mako ergonomic foregrip. Also this is the first time that I have used my MD20 drum. Luckily my S12 came out of the box able to cycle reliably everything from the cheapest Walmart birdshot to the 3" turkey loads. I have two magazines that I have primarily used since I purchased the gun new: the 5 round factory and a SGM tactical 10 rounder. It cycles everything reliably every time with a FTE about once or twice every 100 rounds. Pretty damn reliable IMO. BUT I decided I needed to put the upgrades on the gun as previously mentioned. I went to the range with the autoplug already installed (I left the factory plug on the kitchen counter, dumb I know). I did exactly how the guy in the TAC video describes how to install the auto plug, "screw it in till it bottoms out, back out until a positive click with detent etc". Also did exactly as the guy described in getting it "dialed in". I did all this with the intent to get the MD20 drum with birdshot & auto plug to cycle with my S12 (my perfect blasting stuff all to hell setup you might say). The cheap ammo that I have always used is Remington 7 1/2 game loads. This has ALWAYS cycled reliably though my gun with the factory plug. I started out with the autoplug screw set flush (level) with the outside of the plug so that I would easily know where I started (my baseline you could say). The first round did a FTE, so I dialed the screw clockwise 1/2 a turn and re-shot my gun as directed in the video. I did this about 15 to 20 times (I lost count) before the screw was tightened all the way down into the plug. With it tightened all the way down it still was FTE with the shell catching the bolt and hanging on the body of the gun. I thought maybe it was the MD20 magazine so I put some 00 buckshot and slugs in it. It shot and cycled flawlessly with the heavier shells and the screw set back to my baseline. At this point I had determined that it had to be the autoplug because it would not cycle the birdshot at all with the drum. I decided to see if the plug would work with the factory 5 rounder and the SGM 10 rounder. So I reset the screw back to baseline and started over. I did the same exact scenario and got the screw tightened all the way in this time as well. The gun cycled these two magazines alot better than the drum, although I would call it far from reliable. It would cycle 2 or 3 in a row before it would hang and would also cycle just 1 before it would hang. It wasn't consistent. I did get it to cycle the 5 rounder for four rounds until a FTE on the last shell (this happened a few times). At this point in time I am pretty sure that it is the autoplug though I cannot be certain that it isn't a combination of the 20 round drum AND the autoplug (because I left my factory plug sitting on the kitchen table. Again very dumb). I probably won't be able to go to the range again for a few weeks. Just wanted to know if anyone has had this happen to them? And is it possible that adding the rail and the foregrip may be playing into this as well (messing up the harmonics of the gun or something)? I'm at a loss but want to get this fixed. Any comments or info is appreciated. It sounds like you need to adjust the MD-20 to three full rotations by following the directions with the MD-20 drum... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbizzle 18 Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 But that won't fix the factory 5 and SGM 10 round problems though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 But that won't fix the factory 5 and SGM 10 round problems though get a v plug. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JAldrich2008 28 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 But that won't fix the factory 5 and SGM 10 round problems though get a v plug. Agreed. KISS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skitterfish 10 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 +1 on the V-Plug. If your gun would cycle ammo-X with the factory plug the V-Plug will give you much more control over its cycling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 But that won't fix the factory 5 and SGM 10 round problems though I agree that a V-plug would probably suit your needs better but what really stands out to me is when you said that the MD-20 with buckshot functioned perfectly. Re-adjusting the MD-20 is free and only takes a few seconds, that's where I would start, then I'd move from there with any further troubleshooting. They are all supposed to come adjusted to three turns but when I got mine, it was at about 2 1/2, so I adjusted it to 3 full turns and haven't had any problems with it no matter what ammo I run in it. I agree that if it won't function with the factory 5 round mag, then there is probably a problem but TAC will be in here soon to tell you that you are doing it wrong and this cannot be a fault of their plug... I'd go with adjusting the MD-20 and I'd go ahead and get an order through with MD to get the V-plug but only because that's the combination that I use and it works well for me, all S-12s are different... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 You need to put everything back to factory configuration (at least the handguard and regulator) and try the MD drum again. You have quite a few variables and I think it would be unfair to blame any one part of it at this time. If it is in near factory configuration and still doesn't run with the drum, your weapon may just need some rework. None of mine ran great straight out of the box with low powered light ammo, espacially with the added friction and resistance caused by a fully loaded 20 round drum. After a lot of work, they all ran great with no aftermarket springs etc.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbizzle 18 Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 You need to put everything back to factory configuration (at least the handguard and regulator) and try the MD drum again. You have quite a few variables and I think it would be unfair to blame any one part of it at this time. If it is in near factory configuration and still doesn't run with the drum, your weapon may just need some rework. None of mine ran great straight out of the box with low powered light ammo, espacially with the added friction and resistance caused by a fully loaded 20 round drum. After a lot of work, they all ran great with no aftermarket springs etc.. I'm gonna start out by putting the factory plug back and taking the autoplug off. If it works with the factory plug and drum then I know it's the autoplug that has problems. If it still doesn't work then I'll go back to stock, adjust drum, etc. to try and pinpoint the problem. I really like the autoplug in theory but if it doesn't work in real life then it's useless to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 You need to put everything back to factory configuration (at least the handguard and regulator) and try the MD drum again. You have quite a few variables and I think it would be unfair to blame any one part of it at this time. If it is in near factory configuration and still doesn't run with the drum, your weapon may just need some rework. None of mine ran great straight out of the box with low powered light ammo, espacially with the added friction and resistance caused by a fully loaded 20 round drum. After a lot of work, they all ran great with no aftermarket springs etc.. I'm gonna start out by putting the factory plug back and taking the autoplug off. If it works with the factory plug and drum then I know it's the autoplug that has problems. If it still doesn't work then I'll go back to stock, adjust drum, etc. to try and pinpoint the problem. I really like the autoplug in theory but if it doesn't work in real life then it's useless to me. When I got my first 5 drums, I read the manual and it said that spring tension may have to be adjjusted to 2.5 turns. I did so before ever trying them and the drum would not keep up with the action of the weapon. I put them all back at three turns of tension and they have performed flawlessly. Also, I used a very small amount of graphite at the bearing surfaces in the drums, but I am not sure if it was beneficial or not. The Autoplug is an awesome concept and I really wish that I could try one on my Saiga 12 that was used in the "Flawless" dump video, but don't want to shell out the full price just to try it. I think that many of the S12s that aren't running well with the Autoplug may just need a little massaging, porting, etc.. Let me know if you would like to offload that plug for a decent discount. I would love to give it a try when my S12 gets back from TAC47 and compare it to my plug and the MD V Plug. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbizzle 18 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Okay so I went back to the range yesterday (with my factory plug) and did a little bit of diagnosing. As previously stated my gun works very well with the factory plug, just hated the fact of having to switch everytime I change loads. With that said, yesterday my gun would not work with the factory plug with any magazine (factory, 10 round stick or drum). So I started taking the added stuff off the gun, starting with the rubber rail guards. After this the gun cycled pretty well with the factory and stick mag but not with the drum. So I put the autoplug back on the gun and it cycled well with the stick mag and factory mag also. I realize I will need to adjust the drum for it to work properly with the auto plug and cheap loads but I'm not sure if I'm willing to do that. I may just dump the autoplug and go with the v-plug. Have not yet decided. Edited January 31, 2011 by tbizzle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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