Double feed with Galil steel.

[MikeV 0]

Hello all.

 

I've been wanting to use cheap mags so I had to break down install a bullet guide. I made my own to tighten up steel Galil mags as they are the only cheap mags that I trust to not break. I broke my Tapco Galil mag just by hitting the bottom with a little force.

 

Anyway I got the guide installed and fed to rounds through by hand and everything worked great, but when I loaded up a mag and fired it I had problems. I fired 5-6 rounds and had the weapon jam. I got to looking at what happened and it looks like after the bolt strips a round off of the mag the bolt carrier also strips one off and locks the gun up.

 

I've have attached some photos of the guide and what the jam looks like.

 

If anyone has any ideas about to do I'm all ears. I thought about filing down the bolt carrier where the round is catching but I am not sure if that will cause more harm then good.

 

 

 

The guide.

 

 

 

 

Guide with loaded mag.

 

 

 

The jam.

[jimdigriz 580]

I would not file down the bolt.

 

How many Galil steel mags do you have, and how many did you try?

[MikeV 0]

I only bought one steel mag as I did not want to waste money on mags that would not work.

 

I compared the feed lips on the steel Galil with the one on the Tapco Galil and the Tapco mag has a smaller gap. Tomorrow when I get home I'll close the feed lips on the steel mag and see what happens and I'll try the Tapco Galil.

[GregM1 241]

if you mod anything, mod the mag, not the gun. if you make an error mod, its easier to replace the mag. the rear lug could be causing the mag to sit high, you may need to file the underneath of the lug. from what i have read, the mags are hit and miss on fit. this could just be a problem specific to the one magazine.

[jimdigriz 580]

if you mod anything, mod the mag, not the gun. if you make an error mod, its easier to replace the mag. the rear lug could be causing the mag to sit high, you may need to file the underneath of the lug. from what i have read, the mags are hit and miss on fit. this could just be a problem specific to the one magazine.

 

Right. One of my three Galil steels has a locking tab that is somewhat tapered to one side. It makes the mag more wobbly than the other two. He could have similarly just gotten a bad mag.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Jim Digriz

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Why not just use good mags? The steel Galil's suck in the Saiga. Get some Bulgy waffle mags and you won't be disappointed. They are very easy to mod and they fit tighter, and work better than any other mags you can use in the Saiga .223...unless you put a MSA AR mag adapter in there...then you can still use the Bulgy's and have the choice to use AR-15 mags or drums.

 

Just sayin...

 

[hoglsayer.223 0]

I use dinzags bullet guide. i have 4 galil mags and they hall function 100%

[MikeV 0]

Well today I played with the feed lips a little and ran a full mag with no problems. I know that this does not mean much reliability wise but I'm still playing with it.

 

Cobra, I might end up going with the Bulgy mags but I like steel mags over plastic, plus the Galil mags are half the price. Of course that does not mean anything if they don't work 100%.

With the bullet guide I made the bottom end of the guide drops into the mag well, by doing this I have to file a little off the top of front catch of what ever mag I use so they are super tight with no play at all.

 

 

What is the consensus on the AR mag adapters? I hear everything from they work great to they ruined my gun. Also how durable are AR mags compared to mil-spec AK mags?

 

 

 

Thanks,

Mike.

[GregM1 241]

but I like steel mags over plastic,

 

 

you should check out some German Weiger or Romanian Weiger clone mags. steel and a good fit with reliability.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Well today I played with the feed lips a little and ran a full mag with no problems. I know that this does not mean much reliability wise but I'm still playing with it.

 

Cobra, I might end up going with the Bulgy mags but I like steel mags over plastic, plus the Galil mags are half the price. Of course that does not mean anything if they don't work 100%.

With the bullet guide I made the bottom end of the guide drops into the mag well, by doing this I have to file a little off the top of front catch of what ever mag I use so they are super tight with no play at all.

 

 

What is the consensus on the AR mag adapters? I hear everything from they work great to they ruined my gun. Also how durable are AR mags compared to mil-spec AK mags?

 

 

 

Thanks,

Mike.

 

To each his own with mag choices. When people ask, I offer my opinion like everyone else. Some prefer to use only steel mags, some like the newer synthetics. I guess some don't have confidence in polymers because they think of them as "plastic"....and associate that with toys. The polymers used in quality parts however, are as strong as steel in some ways, and better IMO than steel when used in mags. I have a lot of steel mags. Most are AK mags. Some of them have rust on them from being in damp environments and being handled / used a lot. Some have dents in them that actually hinder the function of the follower. They are all heavy, compared to polymer mags. The Galil 35 rd LEO mags I have, that I got years ago to try and make work in my Saiga .223, I had nothing but problems with, so I gave up on using them til I found a reliable way to make them work. I didn't like how they were too thin width wise, and swayed side to side a lot in the magwell, which can cause feed problems if the gun isn't held perfectly straight while firing. Aside from that, I had problems with the bolt actually riding over the top of the top round in the mag. I really wanted for them to work because they look cool as hell and hold 5 more rounds than my other .223 AK mags, but they were just not reliable for me. Eventually I'll have some side plates welded to them so they don't sway, and doctor the locking lugs to get the feed angle correct. Then I'll be able to use them.

Til then, I really love my Bulgy mags and have never had a single issue with any of them. I've got the black ones and the clear greenish ones....20 rd and 30 rd. Between those and all the AR mags I can now use with 100% reliability, thanks to the MSA adapter, I'm set. All the negative crap that's been posted on this forum has really damaged MSA's sales and reputation. They had some serious business problems that have now all been ironed out and it's in the past. As far as actual product reliability, and quality control though, the products themselves are TOP notch, and far superior to the competition. Customer service is back to the excellent form it once was too. Don't pay any attention to all the bitchy little comments put on this forum by a few disgruntled folk who just were not patient enough, or smart enough, to be able to enjoy the same success all the rest of us have. Adding a perfectly designed and functional product to a firearm does not "ruin" the firearm. Being a dumbass and not following instructions, or attempting something beyond your abilities and not doing it right...well that can definitely ruin a firearm....or at least damage it where it takes someone skilled to repair it. Basically all the good feedback far outweighs the bad. The constant posting, plugging, and advertising of another competing vendor's product, one who doesn't deserve to have their product advertised here, by a certain other member who can't seem to grasp that concept, has also added to the distraction from the truth. If every third post he makes here on this forum, is going to be an advertisement for the competition who doesn't pay vendor dues here, then perhaps he himself should be billed for the same $100 a month that MSA has to pay to be able to talk about their product here? Put up or SHUT UP IMHO.

 

Sorry, not to get too far off topic here, the Bulgy mags do work great if you want to try them. The Weigers and the Orlites can also work well. It's all in your preference I guess. I have yet to see one person though, who has used the Bulgy waffles and did not like the results. That's why I recommend them to people.

What attracted my attention to this thread was the title "double feed with Galil steel". Sounded dangerous to me after the type of probs I saw with mine, so I came in to recommend other options. I like the ability to use both AK and AR mags. The P Mags are the recommended ones because they have the best reputation for reliability, and excellent construction in ARs. Other mags can also be used, but it is recommended that you switch out the followers with the Magpul non tilt followers, to get better reliabilty. Anyone who would like genuine, non tainted information about the other option of using the MSA adapter and AR mags, or would like to purchase an adapter straight from me, let me know and I'll be glad to help. I do keep them in stock and have several of them on the shelf right now.

 

Do they really work, and do the Bulgy mags also work after the adapter mod?? Well....

 

Also, for another perspective on "plastic" mags....here is an old pic I have saved from an advertisement for the Bulgy clear mags....

I'm convinced they will withstand any abuse I can dish out.

 

[MikeV 0]

Thanks for the info Cobra. I do prefer poly over steel in most all mags but in the case of the AK mag I just don't feel poly is strong enough for the rear catch, but from what I read the Bulgy mags are steel reinforce which is the best of both worlds.

 

I am not dead set on the Galil mags by any means but I like to tinker with things and they are cheap. If they had worked that would have been great but since they don't I'll try some Bulgy mags next.

 

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing are these the Bulgy Circle 10's?

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=778252

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=922148

 

Is there any known strength difference between the two? The smoke mags sure are nice for round counting.

 

 

I might get a AR adapter later just because the mags are everywhere and then some. I don't have a AR and don't really want one. I much prefer "rock and lock" over "push and hope it locks and then yank to make sure".(If you have not notice by now I tend to make AR owners mad lol)

 

I have no problem with MSA's adapter or the company. I had just heard of problems with the trunnion block cracking with either adapter simply because some materiel had to be removed to make the adapter fit. Obliviously, the only way stop this 100% is to use the MSA BASTARD but that is out of my price range right now.

 

 

 

 

 

Mike.

Edited April 22, 2011 by MikeV

[jimdigriz 580]

Is there any known strength difference between the two? The smoke mags sure sure nice for round counting.

 

The smoke ones have less steel reinforcement and are made out of a different material. Some say they are brittle. My 20 rounder has worked pretty well so far, but I haven't beat on it. I'm more confident in the black ones.

 

As far as steel mags go, the Weigers are better than the Galils, and can be made to fit perfect, with no wobble.

[Eleutheros 0]

Your simplest solution may be to install Dinzag's .223 bullet guide, as others have with success in using Galil steels. Your homemade bullet guide may be sufficiently different.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Yes those are the ones Mike. They will have "5.56 x 45" on the side, and the double circle 10.

I'm very confident in both the smoke mags and the black ones. The polymer alone is very strong, and the steel in them makes them even stronger. The 20 rd smoke mags even have round count molded into the side BTW.

 

As far as the cracked trunnion issue, that's what I was alluding to. People who cracked their trunnions (or just one guy as far as I know, and I spoke to him about it on the phone) only did so because they didn't take necessary precautions. That was also on the other adapter. The MSA adapter comes with very detailed instructions with measurements, and warnings.