The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I subscribe to the "fit the mag to the gun" process but I've been thinking recently and I'm wondering if we aren't doing this backwards... What I'm saying is this: If all of the mags are made to the same specs (within reason) and the only differences are the guns, then what would it hurt to fit the gun to the mag? Wouldn't you then be able to use just about any mag you get a hold of? You see, I was explaining the intricacies of a Saiga-12 to my cousin, his 7 year old son was present and I said that you have to fit the mag to the gun because none of the guns were the same. Then I said that this makes things a bit more difficult if you have multiple S-12s and at that point the seven year old asked a question that I could not logically answer, "If all the guns are different and all the mags are the same, why not change the guns so that any of them could use any mag?" Isn't this a basic principle to TEOTWAWKI preparedness? What say the masses? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
L5K 162 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I don't have, or plan to have a 12 gauge Saiga mostly because I don't need one, but that said. My 5.45 and 7.62 take any and all military surplus AK magazines I have come across. How is it that the Saiga rifles can be made to accept this plethora of magazines, but somehow the shotguns cannot, I have no clue. There are presumably millions of magazines in circulation that will fit in these rifles with no modification to the magazines, and just a slight working on the rifle. When I go to a gun show and pick up AK magazines I buy the cheapest milsurp ones I can find and have never, ever, not once had to modify the magazine to fit my rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
datrowl 111 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 If I was a betting man, and I am NOT but IF I were... I'd guess the problem comes from overengineering of the S12 mags to account for the fact that they are twice as long and twice as heavy loaded as a 7.62 mag is... they have to be strong to support that kind of weight sticking that far away from the connection point so they are prolly a bit thicker than they HAVE to be to function... just in case someone drops a loaded shotty... Combine this with the fact that 7.62 mags have been made and fitted into AKs since God made dirt.....but 12s... not so much... there arn't 50 countries makeing em, there arn't 50 countries makeing the guns they fit in... they arn't in circulation or production like a 7.62 is.... Most of your AK surplus mags are steel... I currently don't know of any steel S12 mags... and the plastic mags wear and round and etc etc... diminsions for steel 7.62 mags are common and easily found.... diminsions for plastic S12 mags .... well... not all plastics are the same, not all mags are made of the same plastic mix, some wear and chew faster, others are stronger to wear but that makes em more brittle... and the easiest way to fix it all is overengineer em with thicker magwalls than maby needed to ensure function after a bit of wear... please note... I'm not schooled in plastic chemistry nor do I know much about molding plastic into useable shapes... I'm just guessing based on what little real world knowledge I've amassed over the years... Waylon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted May 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'm talking about shot-gun magazines. For instance, AGPs have the same dimensions. Soooo, why not do a tiny bit of filing to fit the gun to the mags so that way you can pick up any AGP mag, insert it, and rock-and-roll... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
L5K 162 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 If I was a betting man, and I am NOT but IF I were... I'd guess the problem comes from overengineering of the S12 mags to account for the fact that they are twice as long and twice as heavy loaded as a 7.62 mag is... they have to be strong to support that kind of weight sticking that far away from the connection point so they are prolly a bit thicker than they HAVE to be to function... just in case someone drops a loaded shotty... Combine this with the fact that 7.62 mags have been made and fitted into AKs since God made dirt.....but 12s... not so much... there arn't 50 countries makeing em, there arn't 50 countries makeing the guns they fit in... they arn't in circulation or production like a 7.62 is.... Most of your AK surplus mags are steel... I currently don't know of any steel S12 mags... and the plastic mags wear and round and etc etc... diminsions for steel 7.62 mags are common and easily found.... diminsions for plastic S12 mags .... well... not all plastics are the same, not all mags are made of the same plastic mix, some wear and chew faster, others are stronger to wear but that makes em more brittle... and the easiest way to fix it all is overengineer em with thicker magwalls than maby needed to ensure function after a bit of wear... please note... I'm not schooled in plastic chemistry nor do I know much about molding plastic into useable shapes... I'm just guessing based on what little real world knowledge I've amassed over the years... Waylon True, but what benefit would this extra thickness give when you have to remove the extra thickness to fit them into the weapon? If the extra material was needed, and I think it probably is, shouldn't they engineer the weapon so that it allows for thicker lugs on the magazines? The Russians use the S12 in their military with high capacity magazines and I guarantee you they aren't paying someone to fit all their mags to each gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aefimcev 2 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 The Russians use the S12 in their military with high capacity magazines and I guarantee you they aren't paying someone to fit all their mags to each gun. Arrgghh! Russians do NOT use the S12 in military at all! Only reason for fit original izhmash magazines to guns it is low saigas quality. For example, compare Saigas with Veprs. Any original mags works with any Vepr. Saiga and Vepr have the same design but different quality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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