looking for a "long" barreled 308

[dvdcrr 0]

no offers so started converting the rifle

Edited October 6, 2011 by dvdcrr

[funkytrain 4]

I want to get excited about the return of the 16" .308s, but can't. My long barreled .308 is very accurate, hits harder and doesn't light up the surroundings like a 16-incher would. I'm very glad to have bought it earlier this year when MAA got a few in.

 

If anything, I'll be on the lookout for a good deal on another 21-incher; but it's gotta have the side-mount. A POSP scope and a long-barreled .308 Saiga is a match made in heaven.

 

My personal opinion on barrel length is subjective to the rifles purpose. If u just want to hunt and shoot and never much more than that sure the accuracy achieved from a longer barrel is justified. People call the short barrel a flame thrower that's why the they put suppressers noise,flash,etc . Has anyone tried running through the woods in the dark with any long barreled rifle in hand ? That's the reason imo the saiga 308 16" is a battle rifle and unless u hope to be able to just sit in 1 spot if the shtf and be a sniper chances are you will rarely need to shot over 500 yds. Mine is for hunting,plinking,self defense,and tactical if need be try being offensive in closed quarters with a long barrel rifle . Anyway with all the talk on barrel lengths just wanted to throw that in the conversation so I say get both turn 1 into a sniper and 1 to a battle/tactical get ready to shoot some zombies.

Edited October 5, 2011 by funkytrain

[ryan6864 11]

honestly i see almost no point in running 308 through a 16" barrel it is just too short plus it is loud as hell and shoots out a giant flame which shows you all of that lost energy. Agreed the 21" is too long for a so called battle rifle but you can cut the 21 down to 18 kind of hard to add a few inches to a barrel though. If you want a short barrel you are far better off using a round like the 7.62X39 which works well in a short barrel, 308 just cost too much to be not getting all you can out of the round. Its all about delivered energy to target the longer barrel hits harder there is no denying that.

Edited October 6, 2011 by cbr

[555JM 10]

honestly i see almost no point in running 308 through a 16" barrel it is just too short plus it is loud as hell and shoots out a giant flame which shows you all of that lost energy. Agreed the 21" is too long for a so called battle rifle but you can cut the 21 down to 18 kind of hard to add a few inches to a barrel though. If you want a short barrel you are far better off using a round like the 7.62X39 which works well in a short barrel, 308 just cost too much to be not getting all you can out of the round. Its all about delivered energy to target the longer barrel hits harder there is no denying that.

 

Amen.

 

The .308 Saiga is all about reach, which the long barrel gives you. Running through the woods is why I have 16" 7.62x39 and .223 Saigas. Besides, they're lighter and their ammo is lighter; better for running.

 

Whichever way it goes, I expect to have the right tool for the job. I just hope there's opportunity to choose & use the right tool.

[dvdcrr 0]

I really like the 16's. 308 is still plenty powerful out of a short barrel. Loud yes, but I find it gets quieter every year.

[funkytrain 4]

honestly i see almost no point in running 308 through a 16" barrel it is just too short plus it is loud as hell and shoots out a giant flame which shows you all of that lost energy. Agreed the 21" is too long for a so called battle rifle but you can cut the 21 down to 18 kind of hard to add a few inches to a barrel though. If you want a short barrel you are far better off using a round like the 7.62X39 which works well in a short barrel, 308 just cost too much to be not getting all you can out of the round. Its all about delivered energy to target the longer barrel hits harder there is no denying that.

 

Amen.

 

The .308 Saiga is all about reach, which the long barrel gives you. Running through the woods is why I have 16" 7.62x39 and .223 Saigas. Besides, they're lighter and their ammo is lighter; better for running.

 

Whichever way it goes, I expect to have the right tool for the job. I just hope there's opportunity to choose & use the right tool.

 

LOL dvdcrr that's u losing you hearing. mine has a ak74 brake on it and its loud as hell .

 

and 555jm I know where ur coming from I would like to own 1 of each but the facts are you can only carry and shoot 1 gun at a time which would u have ?

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Just a bit of digression, funkytrain got me thinking (always dangerous and potently embarrassing) :

 

When you look at the most successful MBRs in 30 cal we see long 20" barrels, the M14 and Garand. Strongly arguable the best MBRs ever produced in the US, tailor made for the 3-400m battle field. Even the M16 Stoner was of a length that insured max velocity and iron sight accuracy out to 400m effective fire. One could say the experience in Nam did a lot to reduce the battlefield scope of MBRs of course they did nothing to address the cover penetration issue of 22 cal ammo.

 

It was only when the CQ urban/jungle warfare rifle and the compressed 200m battlefield became in vogue did we see this move to shorter length. Electronic aiming helps somewhat in accuracy with the shorter barrel but have you ever tried using these in mud?

There are always trade offs. I am no fan of the 223 and 9mm carbines so common in the government arsenals. They trade off a lot to get greater functionality in full auto mode which is why the 308 lost favor. Since we cannot employ spray and pray to any degree the 30 cal becomes much more desirable.

 

The way to counter this compression and small caliber trend is to stretch your range and penetration beyond theirs and plan accordingly. One can carry a 20" barrel though brush as easily as a 16, what happens is when maneuvering quickly the longer barrel becomes a bit of an issue but that's what training is good for.

 

Some say a two rifle solution is best. What becomes plain as funktrain pointed out is question of who is going to tote two rifles? No one is. Without putting too fine a point on it the observation of funkytrain is correct, what is the purpose of the rifle?

 

If you are willing or have no choice to engage inside that 200m range where you will face withering firepower then god bless and good luck, frankly it would be wise to have some advantage at least even if its only a bit more effective range and/or penetration.

i like the x39 at shorter ranges, its light enough, recoil manageable enough, and was intended for short barrels. Penetration is much better than 223 or 9mm and the accuracy is not a real issue until you get beyond 250m. That is why I own them.

 

If there had to be one rifle I would own its going to be the one that unbalances at least some situations in my favor, the longer barrel 308. That is why I own them.

 

Honestly it will all boil down to training. Tote what you know the best, but choose wisely what you know the best.

 

Roll Tide

[funkytrain 4]

Well said Rhodes1968 to each his own with ones weapon of choice and the skill he shall acquire thru practice/training. I personally love my 16" 308 it has the power and the potential range for my regions terrain and the manuverability for urban warfare and 1 final thought.

 

ROLL TIDE !!!!

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Yeah it has its place and a few correctable problems aside is a fine rifle. I would seriously consider hand-loading a faster burning powder along with some form of fh to get that fire breather under control.

 

One thing I forgot in the short 308's favor, Instead of having to stock 2 calibers (308 and x39) the 16" allows stocking only one, this in the end makes things much cheaper. In my case the x39 is set up for low light use with a flash hider of course. Due to recoil in the 308 a compromise may have to be reached going with a more expensive compensator that also yields flash reduction. That flash is going to just kill night vision otherwise. I myself about 80% convinced to sell my x39 inventory for a short 16" 308.

[funkytrain 4]

The ak74 brake I have on mine works pretty good for recoil,flash,and muzzle rise but makes it extremely loud especially if your not the one pulling the trigger so my future plans are to find a reasonable muzzle device that can do all those things and manage the noise also if that is possible without being some big heavy cumbersome thing hanging off the end of my rifle .

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

It tough unless you are willing to start looking at those $150 compensators and even then its a tough call on which one. I know the subject is covered in a lot of threads so will leave it be here. If you have a range that would allow testing in low light or even just twilight that helps greatly.

 

Yall have a good day.

[ryan6864 11]

I just dont see why Saiga doesnt make the 308 in a 18" barrel, the 16" is just too short as you will get a very large flash which is why most run a flash hider but then you end up with a total length of 18" if not more. The 21" is just too long for this type of rifle, if it was a straight bolt action it would be perfect. Due to the firing mechanics of the AK platform it is just not an accurate gun when compared to say a true bolt action 308. 18" just seems to be the perfect length the flash is not that bad really, you get a little bit more of a powder burn than the 16" and it is a little lighter in the front than the 21".

 

But to get an 18" you must cut down a 21"

[leadslinger 37]

Yeah it has its place and a few correctable problems aside is a fine rifle. I would seriously consider hand-loading a faster burning powder along with some form of fh to get that fire breather under control.

 

One thing I forgot in the short 308's favor, Instead of having to stock 2 calibers (308 and x39) the 16" allows stocking only one, this in the end makes things much cheaper. In my case the x39 is set up for low light use with a flash hider of course. Due to recoil in the 308 a compromise may have to be reached going with a more expensive compensator that also yields flash reduction. That flash is going to just kill night vision otherwise. I myself about 80% convinced to sell my x39 inventory for a short 16" 308.

 

the recent introduction of the Ruger Scott got me to reconsider the Saiga .308 to add to my collection and the barrel length is a consideration but the ammo cost is the biggest draw back. The ruger scout seems to do well at short and long distance and i know that the saiga will do well (i know it's not going to be bolt action accuracy). I have a long barrel S 12 and it doesn't seem to be to difficult in home use. So the longer barrel .308 may be in my future. Like you pointed out historically most popular MBR have been long barrel....FN FAL. I like the idea of the weapon giving one the best of both worlds...regarding intermediate and longer ranges.

still carrying allot of .308 ammo may be another consideration. i also have full complement of 7.62 x39 ammo and gear that i would need to get rid of.

 

I also have a decent pump shotgun and frankly have been looking at it as my primary over my S12. It seems the pump is lighter ammo easier to carry in bulk than the huge s12 mags and greater reliability (although slower to speed load....still with practice time is reduced).

 

I guess i am thinking of the reloading end of ammo costs. I can reload the shotgun, .223 and .308 ammo where the 7.62 x39 I just keep buying ammo to stash (cheaper).

 

 

I am going to have to go out to the range with a friend who has a 16 inch .308 and put rounds down range.

 

 

thanks for letting me begin to flush out the brain.

 

 

Now the one thing that has come up recently is the 300 blackout. it is basically a 30 cal round it a .223 cartridge. It performs just like the 7.62 x 39 round uses existing ar mags and lowers. I like the idea of one gun with multiple uses. I love the AK action but having one lower with the availability of switching too 3 different uppers is a super temptation to cross over to the dark side.

Edited December 8, 2011 by leadslinger