dowork1021 64 Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Ok ive been doing some research on the install on my Saiga 223. Everybody says to use a mill and not to use a dremel because of ruining the temper and what not on the front trunnion. But I really want to be able to do it myself with my dremel. Can anybody who has done the install with a dremel give me some tips such as type of bit used, time it takes, how much material removed at a time, and what types of files used. My adapter will be here on thurday or friday so I want to gather as much info as possible. I took a look at my gun and from what ive gathered, the trunnion needs to line up with the bottom of the rails and the side walls need to be flush with the rivets. Correct me if im wrong. It just seems like it would take forever with a dremel because thats quite a bit of material to be removed. Any tips would be awesome. Also if this is too much for my abilities, what would a gunsmith normally charge (ballpark). I dont like other people working on my stuff so that would be a last resort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dowork1021 64 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Bump......maybe you didnt see the post the first time Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Pm me your contact info... I'll call you this afternoon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cooger 19 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I recently finished installing my adapter using a Dremel. It was a pain in the butt and I had to take off more material than I thought I had to but it wasn't too bad. I also heard about the fear of cracking the trunion but i have no idea how that could have happened. I used the grinding bits on mine and they worked pretty good. Using different shape and size bits helped because there are some tight spots you have to grind on. By grinding a little at a time without getting the metal too hot I think you would be safe with a dremel. A mill would be easier I;m sure but it can be done with a dremel. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Using a 1/8" carbide cutting bit is MUCH better than grinding. It cuts instead of "rubbing" material away with abrasive stones. Much less heat created, and much easier to remove material. Slow and steady.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dowork1021 64 Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Im going to pick some of those bits up. I believe I have the skills to do it but after reading some of the other similar topics people make it seem like its extremely hard with a dremel. Do you recommend cutting oil? Or will Rem-oil work? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
butch1911 12 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I used a mill for most of mine. But I finished it off with a dremel. When I used the dremel I just went slow and checked for heat. I used the carbide bit and it worked great for finish work. I finished it last Friday and went to the range on Monday. I shot 80 rounds as fast as I could with out a hiccup. Some of the mags are difficult to seat and remove, others just drop free. I will probably try another 100 rounds tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hexus535 14 Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Carbide bit. 3-in-1 oil. Go S l o w l y. Should work like a charm. Here's a link to a write up I made about this adapter... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/62843-msa-adapter-revisited/ Check it out. You will notice some performance variance depending on the mags you use. Like anything else, give it time to wear in and you'll be more than happy with it. I am currently running steel USGI mags in my .223 and haven't had any problems. My only gripe was that the bolt was locking up on the follower in the magazine after the last shot, making "drop-free" magazine release impossible. I used a file and smoothed out the back edge of the follower and now the bolt just travels right over it, allowing drop free release. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dowork1021 64 Posted July 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 About how long do you think it will take with a Dremel? I picked up some different shaped bits, one that comes to a point which I think it will help in the tight corners. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alexc.s. 25 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Did mine with a Dremel, used a drum and cone shape. I went really slow... like 5 hours slow, but it worked like a charm. About to do another for a friend in a week or two. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RalphXL 9 Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I did mine with a die grinder and carbide bits. Looks crude but works great. RalphXL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dowork1021 64 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Ok I started my adapter install and cut everything to spec. When I go to install the adapter the front catch lines up where it's supposed to be but the rear of the adapter won't rise up at all to lock in. Should the adapter be ground on at all or am I missing something ? Sorry I don't have any pics. Please help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dowork1021 64 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I just took a look and when iinsert the front of the adapter the lips wont rise up high enough to catch even though the adapter is bottomed out. It looks like i need to shave some material off the front of the adapter for it to fit. Ive looked and looked and there is no more material that needs to me removed on the gun. Maybe i got a bad adapter i dont know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Send me a pic of the install. I've got an idea but want to see it to verify. Sounds like it isn't far enough forward. Take the top plate off and look top down. Anything blocking? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dowork1021 64 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 The picture qualit sucks and all the metal shavings are doing something wierd with the light. I tried my best. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dowork1021 64 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Where did you go msa? I got the adapter to almost fit. It still won't fully seat And in out of ideas. I don't want to fubar my gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Pm me your number Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dowork1021 64 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Success!!!!! I figured it out. I didnt square up the trunnion enough and it wasent allowing the adapter to go all the way forward. Man if I would of figured that out yesterday this would have been a 3 hour job. I was freaking out because I felt like I was removing too much material and I didnt want to jack my trunnion up. But when the adapter finally went click, I couldnt help but smile . The job with a dremel wasent that hard. It removed the material easily and with the carbide bits generated very little heat. The trunnion actually looked decent, I thought it was going to look hacked up but everything is very smooth. Those bits are amazing at removing the material. I do have to say that the adapter is well made and is a perfect, I mean a perfect fit. No movement at all when installed but I noticed that the mag release is a little stiff but im sure it will loosen up. I hand cycled some rounds and it fed perfect. Sorry for the bad magwell pic, my phone couldnt focus properly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 It seems like you are taking off more material than you should at first. It's hard to keep cutting into that corner but you have to do it. It has to be more of a square looking corner, and not the big radius you see on the factory milling. That's the reason a 1/8" carbide cutter is really handy for doing the final part of the milling and fitting. It has to go forward enough to just about press the flat front side of the adapter up against the flat across the middle of the trunnion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dowork1021 64 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Yes I took a little to much off. I couldnt figure out why it wouldnt pop in. It really pissed me off. So I just slept on it. This morning I got the bright idea of putting painters tape around the inside of the magwell and inserted the adapter as far as it would go. Then just milled away at the contact points. If I would of calmed down last night and thought of that then I probably would not have removed so much. Live and learn i guess. My factory mag now has a little wobble but it should still feed fine. Thanks again cobra for the info. Edited July 14, 2011 by foreign firearm fiend Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 NP. Sweet looking conversion BTW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Well I see you got it.... sorry I have been all over the Dallas/Ft Worth area today. So keeping up with the forum has been a challenge. Looking good Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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