Saiga or Vepr?

[alternety 7]

I realize this is sort of like walking into a bar, pulling a gun, and demanding the bartender give me all his money; in a cop bar.

 

I have been waiting for the Saiga to get back to reasonable prices, having waited until the rumors screwed the proces. And that seems to be progressing.

 

However, there now seems to be a possibility for getting the Vepr-12 here in the US.

 

Things I have read lead me to believe this may be a superior platform. If imported in quantity, for a competitive price, it could drive the same sort of add-on, rebuild parts fervor as the Saiga. Competition is good.

 

How do you guys feel the two weapons compare? Try to be specific. I know this is like going to a Catholic (Baptist, etc) church and asking how the people feel about Muslims (etc.). But please try to be objective. Is this the replacement for a Saiga, comparable to a Saiga with no significant differentiation, or eats the leavings of Saigas. Or somewhere between. A detailed comparison would be a huge help. Should this forum add a Vepr forum?

[sunnybean 939]

The men from Russia say Vepr > Saiga. It will be hard to get an objective review from this side of the pond as the V12 is non existent. I cannot wait for the V12s to hit our shores. I truly hope that they will import square back receivers.

Edited December 4, 2011 by sunnybean

[pedal2alloy 206]

I would bet that the quality is about the same and that most of the parts are interchangeable.

[schultze13 354]

The saiga is based off of the AKM and the VEPR is based off of a RPK. it is like compairing the Rem. 870 to the mossberg 500 they are the same but different. I have 5 S-12's and I am putting money away for when the VEPR hits the shores I will be at top of the list I am betting on it being around $1000 price range. If you have the money now to buy a saiga 12 get so you will have it to use plus you can use US made rock-n-lock mags. When and if the vepr comes in it will almost certainly have a magwell on it and getting extra mags will be hard and expensive to do. I have $600 in 4 VEPR 8rd mags so unless they ship a large amount of mags in with the guns this will be the case. When the saiga first came in there was several years where it was hard to find extra mags. JMO

[physicsnerd 139]

A lot of good advice already but you can buy a Saiga now for $500. I too am greatly looking forward to the Vepr 12 but who knows how long it will tae to get here. Hopefully 2012 but how much do you value the fun you could be having with a Saiga 12 in that time frame?

[PapaZorro 401]

I would bet that the quality is about the same and that most of the parts are interchangeable.

1 Believe or not - the quality of Molot and IZMASH production is not the same due to different production culture, IZMASH the worth quality weapons made in Russia (We usually say that IZMASH workers have hands from the ass)!!! I had Saiga and now I have Veprs I had a time to compare, most IPSC shooters in Russia and Europe also chose Veprs for the same reason.

2 Most parts - how many 3 or 5, specify please?

[PapaZorro 401]

The saiga is based off of the AKM and the VEPR is based off of a RPK. it is like compairing the Rem. 870 to the mossberg 500 they are the same but different. I have 5 S-12's and I am putting money away for when the VEPR hits the shores I will be at top of the list I am betting on it being around $1000 price range. If you have the money now to buy a saiga 12 get so you will have it to use plus you can use US made rock-n-lock mags. When and if the vepr comes in it will almost certainly have a magwell on it and getting extra mags will be hard and expensive to do. I have $600 in 4 VEPR 8rd mags so unless they ship a large amount of mags in with the guns this will be the case. When the saiga first came in there was several years where it was hard to find extra mags. JMO

 

SCHULTZE, you are right 100%.

 

First of all you don't have Saiga-12 on US market which you could compare Vepr-12 correctly. You don't have neither Saiga-12-030 nor Saiga-12-031, Saiga-12С-EXP-01-030. You have only the cheapest and ugliest versions of Saiga-12 (that versions of Saiga-12 is not very popular in Russia).

 

The history of Vepr-12 and Saiga-12-030 is the folowing - both ware made under the same order form Special Forces of Russian Army and Police so they have interchangeable magazines that fits both, gas block without gas plug, non removable dust cover with Picatinny. Both Molot Vepr-12 and IZMASH Saiga-12-030 ware made for Law enforcement and Military use and later was adopted to civil market use. In many details Saiga-12-030 and Vepr-12 are completely different due to productions was adapted to AKM production line (IZMASH) and RPK production line (Molot).

 

I mark some differences briefly:

 

1) The RPK receiver is heavier and stronger then AKM receiver, so thickness of the receiver on Vepr-12 more than on Saiga-12-030.

 

2) The technology of barrel production of Vepr-12 and Saiga-12 is also different, Molot use rotary forging during production and IZMASH use boring and their barrels have less resource and quality.

 

3) The barrel walls of Vepr-12 are thicker than of Saiga-12.

 

4) The inner diameter of the Vepr-12's bore is 18.5mm, when Saiga-12 is 18.3mm.

 

5) The different folding stock mechanism as well as stocks are little bit different (SVD-style).

 

6) Vepr-12 is heavier then Saiga-12.

 

7) As I know, IZMAH removed LRBHO from their Saiga-12-030 (last production) due to it doesn't work correctly, Vepr-12 doesn't have such problems.

 

8) Vepr-12 has different safety selector then Saiga-12-030.

 

9) Vepr-12 has different gas tube, and AKM upper and low hand guard doesn't fit Vepr-12 (only from RPK).

 

Some pics of same level shotguns:

 

Saiga-12-030

Saiga-12-030-01

Saiga-12-030-EXP01

Saiga-12-031

 

 

Vepr-12 VPO-205-00

 

 

Vepr-12 VPO-205-01

Edited December 4, 2011 by PapaZorro

[second shooter 22]

we have both veprs and saigas here in new zealand, the quality of the vepr is evident as soon as you pick one up, they cost more but you get what you pay for! i would buy vepr over saiga if i was filthy rich, im not so im using a saiga and have no complaints. people often mention the extra strength of the vepr reciever, has antbody ever had trouble with a saiga reciever failing?(running over with pick up dosnt count)

[Asmodeus 13]

What I want to know is if the Molot built Vepr's will come with the hinged and railed dust cover...

 

My other concerns were the magazines as already mentioned. I did not know that they were the same. I figured with the magwell the Vepr would use a different and somewhat proprietary magazine. But if they are the same. Then I'm sure some American magazine could be modified to fit - just like the guns that have an aftermarket magwell here?

 

That's the million $ question for me. I'm not super concerned with drums and the like. But I would like to have a few magazines.

 

That said, I have no problem paying $1000 for a Vepr 12 instead. After handling a few Molot/Vepr variants over the years in comparison to other AK's... they are worth the extra $. I can always buy a Saiga 12 later too. But starting with no Russian 12 gauge. If I had to choose. I'm thinking the Vepr is the right move if available.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Asmodeus

[PapaZorro 401]

Some more pics of Vepr and Saiga

 

The picture of Saiga

 

 

And the picture of Vepr