ortgies 32

[Buford T Justice 17]

Does anyone have an ortgies pistol? My father in law gave me one that his uncle took from a German officer POW in WWII. His uncle was in the navy and they were taking on prisoners and upon searching him he found it in the officers boot. He had been a prisoner for 3 days and no one had found it. The gun is in excellent condition. I just need to get original mags for it my father in law lost the original and it currently has aftermarket. I will post some photos soon.

[Buford T Justice 17]

 

 

 

[Buford T Justice 17]

I went to a gun show today and found another Ortiges with an original magazine which I needed. I purchased the gun so now I have an original mag for my Ortgies. Here are pictures of the new purchase which is not in near as good of condition as the other. I will clean it up the best I can and maybe sell it with an aftermarket mag to recoop my investment. The person assured me it shoots fine. By the way my father in law said the took the gun to a gunsmith once to get it cleaned and the gunsmith told him that the gun probably hasn't had a box of shells fired through it, The one taken for the P:OW that is.

 

 

 

[second shooter 22]

Nice looking pistol , having the story to go with it is priceless, make sure you write it down and hand it on to your kids!

[Buford T Justice 17]

Yes I am going to do that. I did a little study and this pistol was made from 1919 to 1924 and the outlaw John Dillinger carried one.

[Buford T Justice 17]

I field stripped the new(old) gun and everything looks good inside and the numbers on the parts match. Can someone advise me on the best way to restore the wooden grips? They are delicate and I want to remove the years of dirt.

[RED333 1,025]

I dont know what to do to clean it, I would leave it alone.

The patina is worth money.

Find an appraiser, see if they will give you a value on it.

I have to ask, how much did you pay for the second one?

Tell me non of my business I will understand.

[Buford T Justice 17]

I paid $175 for it and figure the original magazine is worth somewhere between $50-$70. I am curious what to do with all the patina(rust) on the gun. I have owned guns for a long time but just recently gotten more interested in them so I am curious about cleaning up the gun and protecting value. I was told reblueing will reduce value but I can't imagine one looking like this one with all the bluing wore off being worth more.

[Buford T Justice 17]

I feel like I am talking to myself here but that's ok maybe someone will read it and be able to answer some of my questions. The barrel is highly polished on the nicer gun as you can somewhat see in the photo. The gun I want to clean up has blemishes on the barrel. What is the best way to bring back it's shine? I am thinking just some time on the buffer.

[gunfun 3,931]

I've been reading, and enjoying learning about old guns. I just don't have anything to contribute except ignorance.

Keep talking to yourself and putting up pictures.

[RED333 1,025]

I to am reading.

I did a quick search and found 6 on Gunsamerica, prices are low 120 high 450.

I dont think cleaning will hurt the value to much, just no sanding, a good wood cleaner and polisher should do the trick.

As far as the metal, alu foil in a hidden spot and see if it helps, make a ball if the foil to use.

Find a spot that you can test on.

So you look to sell the second one with the after market mag?

Do a cleaning, you will get your money out it, or keep for parts, I would keep for parts.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

If you want to keep the value as a collectible piece, do not do ANYTHING to change the finish of the wood or metal. The original, worn finish is much more desirable to a collector than a fresh blue that is not original. The wood does not need cleaning. If there is actual rust (versus patina) on the pistol it can be carefully, gently removed using a nylon brush and solvent. Oil any exposed metal parts, but try not to let the wood absorb gun oil. To preserve the wood, you can use a very small amount of linseed oil - any furniture store or upholstery shop should carry it.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Shandlanos

[Buford T Justice 17]

OK now were talking. I do know from auto restoration that you can lower the value sometimes. I did proceed on my own trying to make a compromise by trying to stop rust damage yet preserve the patina. As far as the wood, I removed the grips and cleaned with Murphies oil soap. They cleaned up and looked pretty much the same so that is good. I did want to preserve the wood from being dry and maybe splitting due their age and thin delicate nature. I wiped them down with linseed oil figuring it would be the best bet to preserve yet not change things too much. Nice to see it suggested above that helps to see someone confirm my decision. Here are some photos. What is your opinion on maintaining the patina? Ok or fail?

 

 

 

Now for the metal. I accept that I will have to leave it with the blemishes as suggested to preserve the originality and patina. But rust must be stopped and cleaned up. I have the parts soaking in Hop's solvent ( I hope that was the right move). I figured 24 hrs and then wipe down and see what I get. If rust remains I will try the foil idea. I am lucky that the worse rust is under the grips which Will be hid. The gun was gummy where there was oil. The best news is that the rifling in the barrel is very good. It looks as good as the other gun I have. I saw no rust in the barrel because it was good and oily which I guess saved it. I will back off the polishing the chrome barrel idea. I will post photos later

 

I did order a re-spring kit for the gun to restore it's operation to as new saving the old original springs. The reason for this is from reading the history on this gun it is very important to it's proper operation and safety. They have been known to give out and going into full auto all by themselves.

 

I have a feeling this is going to be a very fun little gun to shoot. They are said to be very accurate. As far as selling, that was my intention and I may but you know how you get attached to things by working on them.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Buford T Justice

[Buford T Justice 17]

Thanks for your replies and suggestions

[RED333 1,025]

I have a feeling this is going to be a very fun little gun to shoot. They are said to be very accurate. As far as selling, that was my intention and I may but you know how you get attached to things by working on them.

 

O I know that feeling all to well, keep her and pass it down the line.

I have a US sword dated 1864, been in the family for years, it aint going no where!!!

[Buford T Justice 17]

Yeah the one my wife's great uncle took from a German officer will stay in the family for sure. The new purchase will either be for my shooting pleasuer or sell.

[Buford T Justice 17]

After 48 hours in Hop's solvent

 

 

The only real rust was under the grips

 

After 3 hours of cleaning. You would think after 2 days in solvent everything would be clean but it still took time to clean up. My goal was to get the gun clean but leave patina. On internal parts I wanted very clean and I cleaned each part with light pressure on a wire wheel on my grinder. The outer parts I used a cream metal polish because the gun solvent just isn't cutting anything. I striped the gun down to the bare frame.

 

finished product

 

The gun is clean as a whistle inside with the aged look still in tact on the outside. Now it is time to get it dirty again by test firing it.

 

This little gun was so smooth and fun. These Ortgies are know for accuracy and it sure was. I shot from 15 feet standing with nothing to steady my hands. The two shots outside the inner circle was due to premature trigger pull. Having never fired this before I needed to get used to the trigger feel. It is light and so a couple times I fired before being right on target. When I did it right you can see it is dead on. A little getting used to and I should be right on all the time.

 

This one just because I like posting photos. I fired one magazine through it and it feed perfect no problems feeding or ejecting.

 

So what do you think? Did I harm the collectibility or maintain it's integrity.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Buford T Justice

[Buford T Justice 17]

A couple last things. I used 15 feet to try it out because that is what is required to re-qualify for concealed carry in Ohio. I think I may use this gun when the time comes.

 

Look at the photos and tell me if you think the upper part (slide) could have been originally polished rather than blued. They are much more rare but do exist I have seen photos. They were blued on the frame but the upper was polished. This gun has 0 bluing on the top and I would think that some would have survived if it was.

 

Thanks for reading my thread. I know this forum is not dedicated to antique guns or their restoration but it is the only gun site I belong to other than the concealed carry forum so I shared it here.

[gunfun 3,931]

I don't know about collectability. I would say that the enjoyment of a gun you can and do use is worth more than the collectability anyway. It's like all the boomers who enjoy restoring the mustang they got in High school. They have a blast putting it together, go on trips with the wife.... Then they paint it and are afraid to drive it. It is too sentimental to sell, and too nice not to ensure. So now they have all of the hassle and expense and none of the enjoyment. The other thing is that collectors usually buy stuff at discounts or look for the deal. They almost never pay the high prices things are appraised at. Most would rather buy something cheap and hope that it later becomes valuable, so the values are artificial. That's how they sell new baseball cards.

 

You have the best of both. You can treasure your grandfather's gun and effectively use it('s twin) too. As a bonus it is in a caliber that you can easily find ammo for.

 

You paid $175 for a rusty old gun. That probably is all it would be worth to a collector anyway.

[second shooter 22]

it looks good,i would just keep it oiled and give it a trip to the range every now and then, a mate has a ww1 webley 455 he shoots in the classic pistol comp,its great to see the old war horses being used, it also gets more attention than any of the shiney new guns at the range.

[Buford T Justice 17]

I don't know about collectibility. I would say that the enjoyment of a gun you can and do use is worth more than the collectibility anyway. It's like all the boomers who enjoy restoring the mustang they got in High school. They have a blast putting it together, go on trips with the wife.... Then they paint it and are afraid to drive it. It is too sentimental to sell, and too nice not to ensure. So now they have all of the hassle and expense and none of the enjoyment. The other thing is that collectors usually buy stuff at discounts or look for the deal. They almost never pay the high prices things are appraised at. Most would rather buy something cheap and hope that it later becomes valuable, so the values are artificial. That's how they sell new baseball cards.

 

You have the best of both. You can treasure your grandfather's gun and effectively use it('s twin) too. As a bonus it is in a caliber that you can easily find ammo for.

 

You paid $175 for a rusty old gun. That probably is all it would be worth to a collector anyway.

 

 

I know what you are saying about pampering restored things. I have restored some cars but I drove them. I have always felt that driving them was where all the fun was. I guess that is why when I got this gun the restored in me kicked in. My intention wasn't to make a mint on the gun but if I sold it I wanted in the best condition that would get me my money back or maybe a little more. It wouldn't have made since to do something that would ruin its value. Most of all it was about the fun and experience.

[Scott Kenny 144]

On either gun, I would just use linseed oil on the grips. It's safe and perfectly historical.

 

I'd do a bit more research to see if your new one was actually polished on the slide. If it was, that would make a very interesting piece and it would be acceptable IMO to re-polish.

[RED333 1,025]

I believe ya done good, real GOOD. (edit damn I need to learn to type)

You have the best of both. You can treasure your grandfather's gun and effectively use it('s twin) too. As a bonus it is in a caliber that you can easily find ammo for.

 

You paid $175 for a rusty old gun. That probably is all it would be worth to a collector anyway.

 

+1

Edited December 16, 2011 by RED333

[Buford T Justice 17]

Thanks