Unknown Poster 5 Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Whats the last word about the new importer on the saiga's??? When? I hope the show gets on the road soon!!!! Any news? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmbswu 0 Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 There is a website for the Russian American Armory Company, but it is now based out of Indiana instead of Kentucky. Not sure if it is the same company. And the website is just a placeholder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unknown Poster 5 Posted August 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 It sure doesn't sound good for new saiga's, its just taking too long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOB G 0 Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Whats the last word about the new importer on the saiga's??? When? I hope the show gets on the road soon!!!! Any news? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> With this new import ban that the ATF in putting in Sept I wouldn't look for any new Saiga importers for a long time. Bob G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acetomatoco 0 Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ProgCoder 0 Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Whats the last word about the new importer on the saiga's??? When? I hope the show gets on the road soon!!!! Any news? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> With this new import ban that the ATF in putting in Sept I wouldn't look for any new Saiga importers for a long time. Bob G <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The ban shouldn't affect the Saiga since they're imported as a sport rifle. The ban should only affect part kit's of actual AK's and others where the receiver needed to be destroyed in order to be imported, then a US made receiver fitted in it's place. The ban will probably affect guns like the CETME's but not the WASR-10 Hi-Caps. The WASR-10 Hi-Caps are imported as "low cap only" gun's. Once in the US, Century Arms widens the magazine opening and adds the appropriate number of US parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McUZI 1 Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acetomatoco 0 Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 (edited) Makes me wonder how the Saiga was approved in the first place. Detachable mag,AK configuration. And this was all during the AWB!!! Who had their hand in this one? The ATF does not like parts kits being made into weapons. They do not like Non Sporting Weapons. So lets take a complete foreign gun and convert it to a Non Sporting Gun. They would have a cow if they knew how many Saiga Sporters were or are converted not to mention other foreign guns. We may not see Saigas again especially if they know what is happening or find out later. I hope importing continues. It's been so long without an importer,our minds are beginning to wander and wonder. Maybe it is, just the amount of necessary paperwork to become an importer and crate loads of Saigas are on their way. Ace edit typo Edited August 20, 2005 by acetomatoco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOB G 0 Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 The ATF wants to stop non sporting imported arms to many Saigas are being turned into non sporting arms that is what they to stop. How long has some importer been trying to get an import licence and no one is being approved. That is why no on is being approved. They will be imported again when they are made so they can not be converted into non sporting guns. The only thing this ban is going to do is drive the prices up on AK based guns. All the parts kits are drying up. CETME, G3 and FAL parts are just about all gone. The only AK parts out there now are the Romanian. Enjoy these guns while we can. The next thing the AFT will do is change the 89 ban so non of thiese guns can be imported in any form. EAA saw what was coming so they got out. BOB G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
k_dawg 0 Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 the saiga importation [ and all russian fireamrs ]falls under a treaty between the US and Ussr ( now russia ) for the securement of loans. as imported, they are a "sporting rifle", and hence, never violated the AWB or 922r. This is why I do not believe the recent barrel-ban action will affect Saiga/WASR-10 etc. Because they are already fully legal as an assembled rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 EAA saw what was coming so they got out. EAA did not "get out"... From Sharon Bell herself... "The Saiga people wanted us to do something we felt would not be legal, so we told them we would not partake of their plan, and they DROPPED US!" ( mind you thats not quite a VERBATIM quote, its been a while since I spoke to her personally on the phone, but thats the jist of it...) Saiga DUMPED EAA cause they wouldnt play the games Saiga wanted them to play... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOB G 0 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 the saiga importation [ and all russian fireamrs ]falls under a treaty between the US and Ussr ( now russia ) for the securement of loans. as imported, they are a "sporting rifle", and hence, never violated the AWB or 922r. This is why I do not believe the recent barrel-ban action will affect Saiga/WASR-10 etc. Because they are already fully legal as an assembled rifle. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's the whole thing a sporting rifle but we are turning them into something other than what they were intended to be. BOB G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOB G 0 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 EAA saw what was coming so they got out. EAA did not "get out"... From Sharon Bell herself... "The Saiga people wanted us to do something we felt would not be legal, so we told them we would not partake of their plan, and they DROPPED US!" ( mind you thats not quite a VERBATIM quote, its been a while since I spoke to her personally on the phone, but thats the jist of it...) Saiga DUMPED EAA cause they wouldnt play the games Saiga wanted them to play... As far as Saiga dumping EAA that would be dumb that they would dump them before they had an other importer to get their product into our country. Russia needs money now think about it why would they give up cash flow, that is not business like on thier part. BOB G <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Something they "felt" would be illegal. EAA at a number of occasions "felt" incorrectly. I'd want a clearer answer on this, and if EAA didn't check with their attornies and gotten a real answer, then their "feeling" really cost them and us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 I dunno what to tell ya folks... I just pass along what I was told from her, nothing more, no speculation... Call Sharon and ask her yourself... Post it for the rest of us if ya get any concrete answers... I would love to know myself! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acetomatoco 0 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Something they "felt" would be illegal. EAA at a number of occasions "felt" incorrectly. I'd want a clearer answer on this, and if EAA didn't check with their attornies and gotten a real answer, then their "feeling" really cost them and us. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> EAA 1-321-639-4842 Lets not play with words. The words felt and feeling are used everyday, Such as: It felt wrong,I have a gut feeling that is wrong,incorrect or illegal. People then usually stop what they are doing and talk to others(friends or Attorneys) to confirm their "feeling" "The Saiga people wanted us to do something we felt would not be legal, Is better than saying, The Saiga people wanted us to do something illegal. I have a personal motto: If something sounds or feels wrong,IT IS. Doing something illegal costs more than losing Saiga sales. Doing something illegal can shut a business down and send people to jail,Thus losing the business and ALL sales. A business does what is best for themselves,not us. When they drop a product they do not worry how customers will get that product in the future. No Forum Member gets paid to search the internet or make phone calls and at times it is very time consuming. If anyone "Wants a clearer answer" they are welcome to pick up the phone or search the web with Yahoo or Google and participate in the gathering of information. Again the number for EAA is 1-321-639-4842 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmbswu 0 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Bob G, I believe you are mis-interpreting the importation ban. 1st, ATF has contacted all of the relevant importers that their import permit of the kits are now invalid. Therefore, if the importation ban affects RAA and Saiga, they would already have received a letter from the ATF advising them of the fact. The fact that RAA has received its import permit means that they have ATF's full blessing for importation. A simple phone call to RAA can confirm this. Other forum members have good experience calling RAA, though I haven't done so, because I don't want to contribute to their call volume 2nd, the reason ATF came out with the importation ban is because, the statutory authority for the original import permits, under which all of the CETME and AMD-65 kits came in, allows for the importation of kits for the purpose of spares and repairs. However, as we all plainly know, after these kits came into the country, they are being used to build new weapons instead of as spares for existing weapons. Because the current importers of kits are clearly violating the spirit of the statutory authority, by supporting new weapons instead of existing weapons, ATF changed the regulations on kit importation to uphold the spirit of the law. 3rd, the Saiga conversions do not violate the spirit of the law. The stock Saiga, as imported, has been repeatedly affirmed by the ATF, through the many successive importers, as sporting and conducive to the shooting sports. The 922r conversions of the Saiga is completely within the law, even though some forum members here do not believe that we, as end users, need to adhere to 922r in making our conversions. Most Saiga users follow the 922r in their conversion efforts. If ATF were to ban import of the Saiga because of the folding stock/pistol grip conversions here, without any changes in the imported configuration of the Saiga, they will have come up against themselves and the 922r. In court, their effort to ban Saiga import would not stand up. 4th, the 922r conversion to Saiga, as well as other AK builds, have spawned a domestic cottage industry in AK accessories and parts as well as a dedicated fan club. In the absence of another nut rampage (aka Wisconsin), ATF does not have the political backing to ban Saiga importation. I mean, most people still think he used an SKS! If anything, the push would be to ban SKS imports instead of Saiga. So that's that, Jimmy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Acetomatoco... AMEN... you said very well what I was thinking without actually figuring out what it was I was trying to get at... and second... to Jimmbswu... also... well said!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOB G 0 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Acetomatoco... AMEN... you said very well what I was thinking without actually figuring out what it was I was trying to get at... and second... to Jimmbswu... also... well said!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just don't hold your breath waiting for a Saiga importer because the new rifles are on the same truck with Daewoo's magazines. BOB G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Just don't hold your breath waiting for a Saiga importer because the new rifles are on the same truck with Daewoo's magazines. I have one of each, and more than one of each of some... I got plenty... no breath holding here... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOB G 0 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Just don't hold your breath waiting for a Saiga importer because the new rifles are on the same truck with Daewoo's magazines. I have one of each, and more than one of each of some... I got plenty... no breath holding here... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not everyone is as lucky as we are!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOB G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akspec 0 Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Question: If there are so many U.S. based companies making AR's why can't they make AK'S? Wouldn't that put an end to all the import crap? Just a thought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Question: If there are so many U.S. based companies making AR's why can't they make AK'S? Wouldn't that put an end to all the import crap? Just a thought. YES!! Yes it would... seems the AK doesnt have the same "sportability marketing" that the AR has received.. the common populace sees an AK as an "evil black assault rifle" and an AR or variant as a USA made military or sporting rifle... thats where the clincher is, I think... the perception of the rifle... and the hype... We here all KNOW better... but convince the everyday joe that doesnt... its a bitch... Like this one older guy at the club... he admits flat out he "cant get past the look of the AK" of my saigas... even my shotguns that are wooden stocked, that I shoot trap with... he likes the way they shoot and he likes the feel... but its the APPEARANCE that makes it a NO GO... I think hes been on the WRONG END of them too many times in his life in years past, and that is a hard concept to get over, I think.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McUZI 1 Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Question: If there are so many U.S. based companies making AR's why can't they make AK'S? Wouldn't that put an end to all the import crap? Just a thought. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Take an Economics 101 class and then ask that question again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOB G 0 Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Question: If there are so many U.S. based companies making AR's why can't they make AK'S? Wouldn't that put an end to all the import crap? Just a thought. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Take an Economics 101 class and then ask that question again. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's not all economics. The main thing with the AR and M16 is IT IS US MADE!!!! Made in the in the good old U.S. of A. Even the H&K brand would be US made because of factories here. For now they have some control on imported guns unlike imported steel and cars that has done alot more damage to our country's economy. Do we even make our own steel any more? We use imported steel in our cars!!!! BOB G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Compare prices of ARs and AKs of similar quality. They cost the same, roughly. Then add the exchange rate for US vs foreign labor, and you'll see why they aren't made in the US. Plus there are things US companies are good at more than others. I plan to develop something that is more fitting to US manufacturing methods, AND is comparable in price and reliability with AKs. But it wouldn't be anything like an AK, save a small fact or two. And unless some gun company sees fit to fire me, it would be mine and mine alone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmbswu 0 Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 The other day I was thinking about this whole question of pricing power with regard to the stock Saiga. For the several years that EAA was importing Saiga, they couldn't raise the price above what it was, even though the Saigas obviously had higher quality than all of the other imported AKs. For the past year we saw Saigas above the $300 mark, but that was only because of a potentially limited supply. When RAA starts up again, we'll probably will go back to the $200 days with the Saigas. With such a small domestic market, the $200 price range probably generates the most profit as a product of volume and margin. On the one hand, it is really sad that the Saigas, for being such a good value, doesn't have a stronger following in the US, because people can't get past its "evil AK-ness". On the other hand, I guess it's good for us, since we can thus pick up such a great bargain of quality and price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hutch 0 Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 I just wish I could have bought some of the things when they were $250..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McUZI 1 Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 On the one hand, it is really sad that the Saigas, for being such a good value, doesn't have a stronger following in the US, because people can't get past its "evil AK-ness". I don't think that's why Saigas aren't as popular as they should be. The reason for this is that people are totally fucking stupid. They don't have any critical thinking skills whatsoever. They simply react and repeat what they see others doing. What guns succeed and what guns don't all boils down to a social formula. It has nothing to do with what guns are 'the best', but rather what guns are in the right places at the right times, being used by the right people. Things like quality, innovative design, price- these things mean nothing as it relates to the eventual success or failure of a given gun. People are perfectly willing to buy marginal quality, expensive repeats so long as the right social components are in play. Is there any doubt that if the LAPD, Navy SEALs or Army Rangers started to issue stale shit sandwiches to be used as an impact weapon, there would be a large portion of people who would purchase the exact same thing based solely on the rationale that 'if they do it, it must be best.. ? " As far as Saigas ever being $229 again, no. Those prices will never, ever happen. The only reason they were that cheap is because CDNN bought out the remaining stock and was blowing them out the door. It was an artificially low 'remaining inventory' sellout price that we will never see again. Luck to those who got in, boo hoo to those who didn't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 What McUZI said! Also : For sale stale shit sandwiches, reasonable prices. Special forces or Navy Seals version! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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