handguard fitment "?" and misc

[Asmodeus 13]

If this is newbie shit. You have my apologies up front. My saiga 12 will be arriving soon. And I would like to discuss some furniture options. Let's start with what I got.

 

I opted for the Legion Saiga 12 412 without the magwell. This back half is standard Saiga. The front AKM pattern handguards with the FSB out front more like an AK.

 

I plan on doing my own conversion to the back end. Mainly because the stuff most people use looks like shit.

 

I'd rather match the back to the front with KVAR I already own. But also considered picking up a plum set instead. I've got a lot of flavors covered with AKs here. Some wood. Some poly etc. But no plum. Will standard AK handguards fit this shotgun or are the ones on it from legion "special".

 

Also. Trigger guards. I think I like the round one from MD with the integral safety stop. Anything magical here I need to understand? Or would I have an easier time with the tromix unit or the one from Carolina's? Theirs uses the existing holes. I like that. But not the billet look. I'd like to stay as AKM looking as possible.

 

Any other input, suggestions, harassment, name calling, ass grabbing - is also welcome.

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

plum stock set for $45 from apex gun parts, the handguards should fit but the lower will need opened up for the thick shotgun barrel, if i were you i would get the md trigger guard and md molot grip, if you decide to go with a diy guard the RAM is the way to go, the tromix one is functional but pretty ugly imo and i think the RAM guard is stronger

[leadsled 40]

http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_12/aks12.html

 

This is what you want for the ultimate AK look.

[Asmodeus 13]

Yeah apex is on my known quick list. I already spotted the plum set there. I use normal AK grips. I'm weird, but that's gonna be what goes on it. Maybe the pink one from the plum set should I go that route. I have a black poly stock left over from an UF I put the front half on and grip.

 

Thanks for the info on the trigger guard. If I do the MD round one. I have to cut the square for the PG nut correct? Then I need one if those too and the screw. I really just want it to look like a normal AK. Or I'd get the one CSS has that uses the original holes and bolts in.

 

I may just do the plum set at apex. Do they make a 74' eske brake for the S12 to complete the look?

 

 

Leadsled. The legion S12 is already front end converted. Its AKM up front. AK Rear sight block / FSB on barrel. AKM hand guards. Etc. So I don't think I need any of that dinzag stuff. That's why I paid the money. It was cheaper to just buy it. Than buy the parts and do it myself. Idk if off site links are allowed but if you go to Atlantic firearms and go under shotguns... the Saiga 12 412 NM is what I got. $869 was just too good to pass up with unconverted guns going for $625-650. $200 bucks gets me the front end conversion, railed and hinged dust cover... FSB on the barrel... furniture etc.

 

The gun will come out of the box like this.

 

[leadsled 40]

Sorry, I didn't know what your gun looked like. I guess I was showing what I really want.

 

74 Brake

 

http://www.dinzagarms.com/brakes_hiders/74brake1220.html

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Nice choice on the model of S-12, Asmodeus.

 

I probably would have bought one like it as my first S-12 if they'd been offered back in '09.

 

You will have to cut the pg nut hole, but it's really pretty easy. Measure 10x cause you can only cut once.. but even if you slightly screw up and it's a little ugly.. the pistol grip will conceal many sins!

 

I used an AK builder trigger guard on mine. It's similar to the MD unit, (which didn't exist when I converted mine), with a safety stop, traditional shape, etc.. and it installs essentially the same way. It's no big deal to drill a couple holes to attach it rather than using the pre-existing ones.

 

Good luck and have fun. The finished product should be very cool indeed.

Edited May 20, 2012 by post-apocalyptic

[Asmodeus 13]

Received it today. Atlantic is F A S T.

 

Didn't even have time to decide on trigger guard etc yet.

 

Definitely cool. The front end is AKM. Sortof. The lower handguard has a retainer ring without a fold down lock. Instead it uses the saiga 12 gas block screw and a fork / "U" shaped plate that pinches the retainer against the handguard once its in position. The rear sight block appears to be pressed onto the barrel.

 

The gas tube is the neat part. Its removeable. Typical lever and it pops right out. Just like an AK. Star pattern inside the tube and it appears to use a cut piece of standard handguard to fill the gap. It is not AKM length. It is shorter. The back sleeve retainer appears to be AKM perhaps welded to make this tube. It also has a clip ring on the back of it which appears to provide additional forward tension on the gas tube against the gas block.

 

Everything goes in and out with ease, but zero slop. Its all completely rigid. The dust cover appears to have some resistance as well. Its hinged and swings up with resistance throughout its travel. It doesn't flop and will "hang" wherever it is in its range of motion. It locks down rock solid. Its no forged receiver with a rail. But it is confidence inspiring it may be sufficient for a red dot sight. The finish on the gun is fairly immaculate.

 

The hunty sporter stock sucks rabid donkey dick. Totally ruins the gun for me. It has to go asafp.

 

If I didn't want to shoot this thing immediately. I would have already been drilling this thing apart to start the conversion.

 

I am completely surprised this is lighter than an AK

I didn't remember S12's being this light. Its lighter than my Polish UF. Which is not a particularly heavy rifle. (I don't put junk on AKs)

 

The magazine locks in place and is removed with perfect ease. Loading on a closed bolt is a bit of a whore however.

 

It is also a little sticky if you ease the bcg forward. It seems to want to stop at the lugs. I'd assume some shooting might clean this up.

 

I took some photos of the HG and stuff. Its standard AKM. Kinda. The inner "edge" is relieved further back. And the receiver stub is reduced to a very thin tabs to sneak into the receiver. It does not appear to have been modified. But made this way. So its origins - Idk.

 

Gas system on this one appears to be standard fare Saiga 12. It has 3 ports. Very unobstructed by the gas block.

 

Curious to see if it shoots low brass.

[Asmodeus 13]

Ok here they are if anyone is curious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Thanks for the pics, man. She looks great!

 

I haven't yet decided between that model and the IZ-433 for my next S-12.

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

could you please get me a pic of how the rear sight block is attached? it seems odd, especially with the short upper handguard

[ramlake 98]

Ok here they are if anyone is curious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the first and second photo you can see when you open up the handguars you will break out into the bottom of the fins on the sides.

 

Standard AK handguard has deeper fins in other words.

Edited May 23, 2012 by RamLake

[Asmodeus 13]

could you please get me a pic of how the rear sight block is attached? it seems odd, especially with the short upper handguard

 

Yes. Can do when I get home.

 

 

Thanks for the pics, man. She looks great!

 

I haven't yet decided between that model and the IZ-433 for my next S-12.

 

I liked the FSB out front like an AK. I was really on the fence between magwell and no magwell as well. I decided if I really wanted one, I would just buy one and put it on later. What I wished I would have paid the MOST attention to however is - the little plunger by the magazine release. If you look very carefully at the pictures of models Legion offers. Some of them are equipped with an automatic LRBHO. Very few are. But they are there. It's one of those things that is not that important for typical range use... But if I were ever using a S12 on a 2 way range... I would probably give nearly anything to have.

 

 

I ordered a ton of shit from CSS to get this conversion underway.

 

I opted just to match the furniture for now. Since I have a black stock that matches the front set already. So I ordered a black grip. The MD round trigger guard. The short 10 slot FH. An 8rd SGM magazine, the hole plugs, a G2 FCG I will modify myself, and the PG nut and screw. Oh and the AK stock recoil pad just in case I feel like blasting away with a ton of slugs and what not. IDK if I'll use it or not. But it was $12. *shrugs*

 

I was running short on funds so I didn't mess with the piston "puck" or the plug itself yet. But a friend told me to get the TAC47 auto plug and just be done with it.

 

Thoughts on that?

Edited May 23, 2012 by Asmodeus

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

it looks to me like that rear sight block is just attached to the barrel and dosn't sit in the trunion like the 030s which use a standard length upper handguard, i was considering getting one of those in the op so i could have the standard gas system but the handguards and rear sight block are a deal breaker, so if i get one it will just be an 030

[ramlake 98]

040's have a stock s12 109 gas tube with a modified AK RSB welded on top. It is positioned in front of the dovetail so the hinged rail can attach.

 

This puts the RSB and handguard forward and requires a shorter handguard.

 

saiga / legion has used several ways to attach hinged cover, the way I approached this on my s12c was the second method like the 030 which the RSB is attached into the front truniun and uses standard length upper HG

 

 

 

and my spetnaz 3

 

Edited May 23, 2012 by RamLake

[Asmodeus 13]

Ram how does the dust cover work on yours then?

 

This one is hinged, like you said, and welded to the front trunion. Then the rear sight block jammed right in front of it, and it wraps the barrel where you cannot see it under the handguard. There is a piece of papers thickness between the rear sight leaf and the hinge. IDK how you did it. But it made sense as to why they did it like they did it when I looked at it last night. Do you have a closer up picture of how your dust cover was attached? I'm curious now. Is your gas tube pressed into place or removeable?

 

 

That little railed gas block piece you made is neat. Any way to get one of those? I'd like to add a small light in a similar fashion. Without adding rails anywhere else.

 

Does that just attach in a similar fashion to the piece I have now, minus the nifty rails? Maybe I can just bolt some picatinny to mine.

 

 

Sorry, I'm still kinda new to the Saiga thing. So it's taking me a little while to catch up on all the little differences, especially when it comes to some of these partially converted ones.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Asmodeus

[Asmodeus 13]

Ok.

 

 

 

 

That's the rear sight portion and how the hand guard attaches.

 

Unfortunately the rear sight block isn't in there straight. Kinda disgusted. Its canted counterclockwise a bit. Not like a hair. Like 5 hairs.

 

 

The rear sight blade is clearly higher on the right. Its near impossible to take a picture of. But shoulder it in the sunlight and its obvious.

 

Its not a huge deal. But something someone should have clearly caught before it went out the door.

 

 

 

Can I rotate this somehow back the way it needs to go?

 

What would you do if it was your gun? Leave it alone? Bang on it? Send it back? Cry like a girl on message boards?

 

The FSB appears to be fine. The receiver rail is level with it. The gas block seems in line. Then the rear sight base is... all crooked. Lol. The weird part is it seems levelish when you look at it. But the rear sight blade is clearly leaning.

 

Now what...

 

 

 

 

 

[Asmodeus 13]

Nevermind. I can fix this. Knock the cross pin out. Beat it with a mallet. Run a bit through the hole. Repin.

 

I started too. But ill deal with that later.

 

I drilled the rivets out for the TG and factory fcg. Now just waiting on parts from CSS.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Asmodeus

[Asmodeus 13]

Have to touch up the receiver. Put in the hole plugs, and likely do a fcg job to be truly happy.

 

But... just LOOK at it. Lol!

 

 

 

The BHO can suck my ding a ling. Since its all coming back apart anyway I didn't put it in. I already modified it for the safety tho so it IS going in there. Just need to figure out which magic spell I need to learn to make that happen.

 

Also, the shepards crook was a bad decision. Even the tromix one is a whore to install. Should have bought a plate like I did for the other AK's.

 

One more thing. The silver arm near the disconnector. Is that an overtravel stop? (On the factory fcg) I think with some grinding it easily could be added to the new fcg and used as such. Anyone ever do anything with it like that?

 

Just wondering.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Asmodeus

[Asmodeus 13]

The more time I spend with this shotgun. The less I would recommend buying one from legion. Everything they touched is canted.

 

The receiver cover is twisted in its mount. And welded in place off kilter. The rear sight base is hopeless. The bolt carrier just smashes it back out of alignment after you cycle it a few times. If you actually shoot the weapon. It will push the rear sight around on you.

 

I just don't understand. If you're going to go through the trouble to put this stuff on a gun. Why would you put a miniscule amount of effort into it? Its like they didn't even try to make any of this stuff straight.

 

The rear sight base is hopeless.

 

I'm beginning to think the rail is suspect as well. And will likely be useless to mount anything as well. Perhaps if it were parallel to the receiver, and not twisted abfew degrees counterclockwise it might be rigid enough.

 

But seriously - why even bother? Why convert a gun and suck this badly at it.

 

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

i think legion just imports them, hopefully some other reviews come out and you just got a one in a million vodka special

[Asmodeus 13]

What I don't understand is that it takes full force blows with a rubber mallet to drift the rear sight base back clock wise. Drop the bcg off the Bho. And even with the pin in place. It rolls right back. Supreme faggotry.

 

I'm going to step it up to a 7/64 roll pin as soon as I can get my hands on one. And when I drive it in. I'm going to build a jig to hold it and the barrel in place. I've routed the hole out already. If it rolls around anyway. It has to be some kind of flex assembled into the rsb mounting and its unfixable. At least by me.

 

What is driving me nuts is that it truly seems to only move at the front of the rsb. And the back remains fixed. Making the rear sight itself seem to run a diagonal. Fix the cant. End up with an angled rsb anyway.

 

If I expected to have to deal with this level of inconsistency. I would have just bought a standard saiga 12, shrugged and said. "Typical".

 

Was I mistaken for expecting a little more?