AK noob, i need advice!

[dubya 198]

Hey fellas, I'm new to this forum and was referred here by a member of another forum. I just bought a Saiga 7.62x39 AK variant with a 16" barrel and 10 round mag. I paid $300 for this rifle from my uncle who had had it for awhile now and its never been fired. Neither one of us know much about AK's so i have a few questions. First of all, where can i buy furniture to convert this back to a real AK and what brand? I would like to buy a complete kit if that's possible and i really like the classic looking red wood stocks and pistol grip but im open to an adjustable AR type stock as well. Next, can i use a 30 round pro mag in this rifle? I just bought one on gunbroker so I'm hoping it works! Lastly, what are these worth nowadays? I feel $300 was a really good deal especially with 500 rounds of ammo and the rifle being NIB.

 

Thanks!

dubya

[chevyman097 2,579]

First of all you got a super deal! They are just about all dried up in stock, and have been going for as high as 700.

 

 

Carolina shooters supply is a great place to start for parts. Super customer service. They are shutting the web site down from time to time for a few days to catch up on back orders so be patient. You can get full kits or parts in singles. You will find other vendors here who offer parts and kits too. Scroll down the main forum to the vendors sections, you will see them.

 

There are videos to be found all over the forums that will help you do the restoration(conversion). This one is a great start. http://vimeo.com/2787027

 

You can find other in depth info if you want to go the full restoration route and do the front site base and original style hand guard. But a basic conversion will get you most the way there and may even like it that way. You just wont have the bayonet lug or threads for muzzle attachments. You could thread the barrel without changing the FSB that can be found here too.

 

The tapco magazine will not work without a bullet guide in your rifle. Also 922r may or may not come into play depending on what you do to it. So you need to be informed on that. It may seem overwhelming at first, but its really not that bad. More of just a pain in the ass than anything. We can explain all that later. As far as mags go you got into this at a terrible time for mags. They are over the top on prices right now, and pretty much cant be found anywhere online. Mil surp metal mags is the cheapest(was) long term way to go.

 

As far as wood, i believe Iron wood design and Tapco are the only ones that make us compliant(for 922r) stock sets. But they can be had for a decent price.

 

I cant think of what else to touch on off the surface right now but feel free to ask and there will be plenty of people willing to help.

 

 

ETA: most of the info on 922r or conversions can be found in the stickies at the tops of the sub forums. But if you have any questions concerning either feel free to ask or PM me and I can attempt to help or refer you to some one who knows more on the subject.

 

Welcome to the saiga club.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Chevyman097

[dubya 198]

Awesome, thank you for the quick response! Basically im just looking to add nice wood furniture with a pistol grip and make it able to accept the standard 30 round AK MAGS. Im not too concerned right now with muzzle attachments or anything. Ill check out the Carolina shooting supply. I used to own a S&W m&p 15 OR but wanted something a little more powerful. I just sold my FiveseveN for $3300 so i have a little play money

[mostholycerebus 415]

Def get US made wood, for 922r compliance. I went with Dinzags bullet guide, hes very forthcoming about the qulity of the steel he uses.

 

You got a deal that would have been considered good, a year and a half ago. Today, you could probably sell that for a grand.

[dubya 198]

He's giving me 500 rounds of ammo too. The 922r crap seems messy, I should be alright if i buy only US parts correct?

[chevyman097 2,579]

He's giving me 500 rounds of ammo too. The 922r crap seems messy, I should be alright if i buy only US parts correct?

yes.

 

Pretty much if you are going pistol grip and all you want to stick with US parts as much as you can. Its very easy to find us stock, pistol grip, fire control groups(counts as 3) forends and pistons/muzzle devices if needed.

 

Ill try and give a simple example of 922r.

 

The rifle starts out with 14 parts. Thats including the foreign mag. You need 10 or less foreign parts total on the rifle to be compliant. So start by taking 4 of those away and add only us parts.

 

Your buttstock, trigger group(will get you to 10), and forearm(since you are doing that you will be at 9, extra good). So add those back as US parts and if you add any non US made parts you have to count them to remain 10 or less total. Remember to get a US made pistol grip.

 

With that count you can use any mags US or non US and your good.

 

 

With 922r you basically cant have more than 10 non US parts if its in "evil assault rifle" form according to the ATF. The foreign parts are the only parts that matter when you count.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Chevyman097

[BigChongus 765]

I've always been amazed by how much less lethal identical US-made parts can make a rifle.

 

 

[dubya 198]

Thanks for all the great help guys. I just packed it up and on the left side it reads'made in Russia by Izhmash' and on the right side it says 'EAA CORP cocoa, FL' (importer?) And 'SAIGA 7.62x39' and it came with one 10 round mag and 400 rounds of wolf steel case 122 grain ammo. Im pretty pumped to get this puppy converted! And i noticed a black button(?) On the back middle of the receiver and was wondering what that was? It also has what i believe is an optic mount on the left side.

[chevyman097 2,579]

oh lord. I didnt realize you were that bad off. OK son, sit down, its time to talk about the birds and the bees. lol jk

 

Ok the "button" on the back removes the dust cover. The rail on the side is indeed a mounting rail for optics rails.

 

Watch these series of videos on disassembling and cleaning. They may be a little too long and drawn out for some, but they are good and informative. If they get too slow then just you tube or google how to take down an ak. that should do it.

 

[dubya 198]

Lol, thanks again. I'm well versed in bolt action rifles and 1911's, poly pistols and revolvers but have never owned a semi auto rifle for more than a month. Once i have more time and everything sinks in I'll post before and after pics here for you guys. After looking around i may actually go with a skeleton stock and a foregrip with a rail. Is it fairly easy to install something like a Trijicon RMR on these? I have one on my FNP-45 and really like it.

 

Cory

[dubya 198]

I just ordered an ACE skeleton butt stock 8.5",and a pistol grip. I have to move the trigger/trigger guard forward. This difficult to do?

[chevyman097 2,579]

Moving the trigger is not difficult at all. The video I posted above will show all the details. It can be done with as little as a file, drill, and some spray paint for touch up. But a dremel does wonders. You can even use more advanced tools if you have them available. It just makes it that much easier.

 

There are tons of optics options out there, but the RMR would do just fine.

[dubya 198]

I stayed up until the wee hours of the morning watching alot of video's and reading thread's on various forum's. The whole process seems quite a bit easier than i first thought! Im going to order everything i need this week from CSS and I'll post pics when I'm finished. If i run into any problems i know who to ask! Thanks guys, especially chevyman (a ford guy getting help from a chevy guy...lol)

[mostholycerebus 415]

Def watch the videos multiple times, with your rifle in hand to compare, before doing anything. Its not hard, but you sound kinda n00bish, which is fine we all were, but just take your time.

 

One important thing: when you do the bullet guide you will have to file down the top of the mag catch for non-saiga mags to fit. Get a couple of steel combloc (russian, german, polish, etc) mags to use as test mags. File the mag catch to the point where the combloc mags snap into place, and fit securely. They file any other mags on the tab to fit the mag catch.

 

The problem is, some aftermarket mags have a thicker locking rear tab than they should. SO if you file the mag catch to fit them, other mags that are in-spec will be wobbly. Probably not going to affect reliability, but annoying and noisy.

[dubya 198]

Thanks for the tip. I do plan on getting a BG but i will probably just keep it in my part's box in the safe for when there are surplus AK mags available at decent prices. For now I just bought 2 surefire 30 round Saiga mags and 1 Promag 30 rounder (I've heard the promagis junk?).

[dubya 198]

Alright i just put in a $300 order at CSS. I got 2 different butt stocks, an ACE Skeleton 9.5", and a NATO style stock (hoping it comes with the cleaning kit). A pistol grip, trigger group, rounded trigger guard, hole plugs, a rounded BG and some other odds and ends. Id like a shorter fore grip eventually but didn't see exactly what i wanted.

[semper299 284]

Awesome, thank you for the quick response! Basically im just looking to add nice wood furniture with a pistol grip and make it able to accept the standard 30 round AK MAGS. Im not too concerned right now with muzzle attachments or anything. Ill check out the Carolina shooting supply. I used to own a S&W m&p 15 OR but wanted something a little more powerful. I just sold my FiveseveN for $3300 so i have a little play money

Regarding wood furniture....If you are going to do wood on the AK, I highly recommend Ironwood and Combloc Customs. You can order your wood through Combloc Customs and he will have it shipped from Ironwood to him. He will stain it whatever color you choose, then ship it to you. And he is awesome at what he does. I have a set of Combloc Red furniture on my Saiga, and I could not be happier. You are looking at about $200-250 for the wood and the staining, but it is well worth it IMHO.

[semper299 284]

Alright i just put in a $300 order at CSS. I got 2 different butt stocks, an ACE Skeleton 9.5", and a NATO style stock (hoping it comes with the cleaning kit). A pistol grip, trigger group, rounded trigger guard, hole plugs, a rounded BG and some other odds and ends. Id like a shorter fore grip eventually but didn't see exactly what i wanted.

If you want a "shorter" foregrip (handguard), then you just need to change out the gas tube. It really is simple. Buy an AK 74 gas tube and some type of handguard retainer (there are several options in this....Dinzag has a good one, as does CSS). After you change out the gas tube and install the handguard retainer, just about any AK furniture will work.

 

If you do remove the saiga gas tube, dont forget to remove the bolt assembly first.

[dubya 198]

Thanks Semper. I do want some nice red wood furniture but im probably going to wait and see what i really like before spending any more money. Has anyone ever had their Saiga Cerakoted? Im thinking i may send mine to Kampfeld down the road, he's done a couple of my kimber rifles and i really like it.

[chevyman097 2,579]

You better check your rifle again. Im pretty sure all 762x39s use the flat bullet guide. Look just on the outside of the chamber where the trunion is and it should have a flat spot just under the chamber. The sides will slant up slightly. The round truinion will just be rounded all the way around.

 

And grab a retainer plate, its makes a world of difference. Way easier to deal with over the shepords crook.

 

Yep, plenty of folks have had their rifles kerakoted and duracoted. Lots of people out there that do it. You can do just about anything with it.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Chevyman097

[thebuns1 4,323]

Welcome to the disease. Its kinda like an STD, but only the good kind. Lots of options, but with todays market, poor availablility and pricing. I feel you'll come out ok though. If you have any questions prior to doing any work, feel free to ask, but search for it first. Id rather see you ask than bubba up your gun. Just take your time and enjoy it, and dont rush it. You'll have better results that way.

[dubya 198]

Chevyman, IF what im looking at is right it's the rounded one. I am having trouble uploading pics (using my phone) can i text or email someone a pic of what im looking at so someone with experience can see?

[chevyman097 2,579]

Can you get the picture to photobucket then just post it that way? I supposed they could have some with round trunions, but I was under the impression they were all flat. I wouldnt mind you sending me a pic but honestly dont think my crappy phone would show it very well.

 

If you can possibly email it to me I could post it for you.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Chevyman097

[dubya 198]

Here's a (crappy) pic...

Edited January 16, 2013 by dubya

[chevyman097 2,579]

Yep, that is round. I stand corrected. Forgive me. We are all bound to be wrong eventually. lol

[dubya 198]

Try this

[dubya 198]

Good i didn't want to order another one @ $20+SH. I think i got pretty much everything i need besides a fore end and new gas tube. I'm eventually going to order a wood stock set as well. Hoping i got the right trigger group and what not (it said for Saiga rifles) and more importantly that they are US made parts. It didn't say weather or not they were and CSS doesn't have their phone # listed, saying they are not accepting calls at this time.

[dubya 198]

Yet another rookie question (im sure it's annoying but give me another day or two!). I was reading the mods sticky about 922R, which is an awesome sticky, and from what i understand you can count a US made mag as 3 parts. I have two 30 round surefire saiga mags so i can count the mag body, follower, and floorplate as 3 separate 922R compliant part's? Thanks guys.

 

Cory

Edited January 16, 2013 by dubya

[semper299 284]

Yeah, my x39 has a round one also. I would love to answer your question about the mag and 922, but I don't think even the ATF knows the answer to that question. The "safe" thing to do is make sure you have enough without the mag. I am guessing that evetually you will convert the magwell to accept the evil high cap mags, at which case you will need other parts to account for 922 compliance.

[chevyman097 2,579]

If you use a us mag yes it counts as 3 us compliance parts. But remember. If want to ever use foreign mags you must count it as well. So it will add 3 foreign parts. The most common conversion is to make it compliant for all foreign mags, then you dont have to worry at all. But if you want to only use us mags for the time being that is fine.

 

But remember you dont count us parts towards compliance. You only count foreign parts at 10 or less foreign parts to be compliant. You can add as many us parts as you want and it makes no difference towards compliance or not. The key is countable foreign parts. Just remember the countable parts and stay 10 or under and add all the us parts you want otherwise.

 

 

For example countable parts on a saiga rifle are.

 

 

1.receiver

2.barrel

3.mounting block

4.muzzle attachment(only if it has one)

5.bolt

6.bolt carrier

7.gas piston

8.trigger

9.hammer

10.disconnector

11.butt stock

12.pistol grip

13.hand guard

14.mag body

15.follower

16.floor plate

 

Total is 16 minus 2 because you dont have a muzzle attachment or a pistol grip yet

so that make the foreign parts count 14

You must remove 4 parts and anything you add back must be US made.

 

You are removing the butstock 1

and trigger 3 parts

 

Your count is now 10 you are compliant even with foreign mags if you ad back only us parts to the gun.

 

You are replace the

Buttstock US

PG US (assuming you didnt get a thumbhole stock)

trigger us

disconnector us

hammer us

 

 

So if you do use us mags, thats 3 less foreign parts and you can add back a foreign part on any of the countable parts but you must remain 10 or under on those parts.

 

 

Im just rambling now and im afraid i may confuse both of us in the end lol. I probably wouldnt be considered a "noob" on this by now and it even still gives me a headache. i know it sounds way more complicated than it is. Once you get used to it you will totally forget about it and not care anymore.

 

let me know if we can explain it any better, i may have just made matters worse.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Chevyman097