WASR 10 Feeding issues

[TYBOY 33]

Picked up a Wasr 10 the other day from a family member. I had shot it with him before and knew it had some feeding issues. The two mags he had for it both act the same. They do not feed consistenly. I am not sure of the maker as they are unmarked. Have some Bulgarians on the way, just in case.

 

I bought this because I enjoy tinkering with the AK platform. I thought since my S12 was running like a raped ape, I needed a new project. I have attached a few pictures that show where the round is hitting when feeding (red arrows). Is this normal for the WASR. You can see the marks left behind. The guide rails look straight and both mags feed in the same area. I was thinkng of doing some minimal sanding and polishing on the feed ramp. I was also trying to determine if making a better angle going in to the battery was a good idea or not. I am thinking NOT.

 

Anyone done mods to their wasr for this? I am not interested in going to the other AK sites for info- I kinda like this one after all these years.

 

Thanks

 

Edited February 3, 2013 by FORDGUY

[TheDarkHorse 216]

Wait on those new mags. If it continues to misfeed with the new mags, re- profile the feed ramp for better deflection.

[TYBOY 33]

Wait on those new mags. If it continues to misfeed with the new mags, re- profile the feed ramp for better deflection.

Will do. I did a little research and the mags I have are both Romanian. O and F stamps on the spine. Damn these things have some sharp edges.

[mancat 2,368]

IMO do NOT touch the feed ramp/bullet guide until you have eliminated any other issues, and there could be a few more other than just bad mags. There is not much work that can be done to the bullet guide that will affect the trajectory of 7.62x39. More than likely you have a mag seating issue, but I will pull out my Romanians in a bit here and verify that your bullet guide looks correct.

 

I have seen weird things on WASRs such as the factory forgetting to install the spacer plate/safety stop on the mag latch assembly. Things like this can severely affect the feeding trajectory.

 

Also I must ask, are you pulling the bolt carrier all the way back and just letting it fly, or are you gently riding it forward?

[TYBOY 33]

IMO do NOT touch the feed ramp/bullet guide until you have eliminated any other issues, and there could be a few more other than just bad mags. There is not much work that can be done to the bullet guide that will affect the trajectory of 7.62x39. More than likely you have a mag seating issue, but I will pull out my Romanians in a bit here and verify that your bullet guide looks correct.

 

I have seen weird things on WASRs such as the factory forgetting to install the spacer plate/safety stop on the mag latch assembly. Things like this can severely affect the feeding trajectory.

 

Also I must ask, are you pulling the bolt carrier all the way back and just letting it fly, or are you gently riding it forward?

Thanks for your time.

 

To troubleshoot the feeding issues, I am just moving the bolt slowly (gently) by hand. I am watching it grab a round and where it is hitting. I did try putting upwards pressure on the carrier and it it did not help. Mag wobble is limited.

 

I am doing all this with the firing pin removed.

 

I sure do see alot of pics on the web of people adding a angle the the factory one in the 8 to 6 position. I can just imagine this trying to feed with hollow points.

Edited February 3, 2013 by FORDGUY

[mancat 2,368]

Easing the bolt carrier forward gently will usually result in a jam, even on a perfectly functioning AK. Function check should always be performed by allowing the carrier to go forward under its full sprung force.

 

What you are probably seeing on the chamber face is that some of the Romanian barrels have a small ramp cut into the chamber face, right about where the ONE red arrow is located in your pic. Most don't. I have two Romanians, both without any sort of chamber ramp, and both of them feed hollow points and soft points without any issue.

 

I've never seen someone cut any sort of angle into a 7.62x39 bullet guide (the area in your photo with the TWO red arrows), but I could be wrong.

 

Modifications to the chamber or bullet guide are not easily reversible. They should be done only as a last resort, preferably by an experienced AK gunsmith.

Edited February 3, 2013 by mancat

[TYBOY 33]

Found these surfing. It was the chamber that I was thinking of modding. I was not sure what the negative effects could be. To be honest, I would not use a gunsmith for any of this.

Edited February 3, 2013 by FORDGUY

[mancat 2,368]

The risk is for case splitting or head separation if you create a cavity that goes too far into the chamber. You also introduce the possibility of chrome flaking by disturbing the chrome plating of the chamber - not sure how realistic that one is though.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Id try new mags before doing anything else.

[TYBOY 33]

Looks like it also has another possible issue. The bolt and carrier get in a bit of a bind when entering the front trunnion and the bolt turns. Not the same as the whole last 1/2 inch as discussed with the S12. It closed fine without a round in it. When you have a round in the extractor it gets tight as hell both in and out. You can see the carrier lifting up and watch the bolt in the rear of it going to the side. The round going in the chamber is acting like a BAT and forcing the bolt to follow. I am in the process of painting and seeing where it rubs off.

 

BAT= Bolt Alignment Tool. Sorry, This word is a joke about a thread I posted earlier.

 

I have definately found me a new project.

[mancat 2,368]

How many rounds does this WASR actually have through it? The bolt camming surfaces on the carrier may not have worn in yet.

 

Many Romanian AKs are headspaced on the tight side from the factory. They can appear to "stick" during bolt lockup. This is also something that lessens over the course of a thousand rounds or so, as the locking lug faces wear in together.

[TYBOY 33]

It only has maybe 300 rounds through it. Its a 1983 GP model. Everything appears to be straight but when the bolt locks up I can see the end of the Oprod move to right off center of the gas block while the tube is removed. I also has a good wear line on the bottom of the front part of the carrier that rides in the tube. The Oprod is tight in the carrier (no play). I have heard different views on whether it should be tight or loose. I installed a Tom Cole on my S12 without issue. Maybe i will just remove and reinstall with a pin, leaving a little play. This may help a little, but Im thinking it may act as a bandaid for the real problem.

[mancat 2,368]

The carrier can really be as loose as it wants to be in almost every single direction. What matters is whether or not the bolt enters lockup properly. The carrier's tightness has zero effect on headspacing. A properly headspaced bolt is not going to be affected by a loose carrier, because by the time it enters lockup, the carrier is no longer really supporting it all that much.

 

You still haven't said whether or not the WASR actually functions fine when firing, or when pulling the carrier back and letting it fly forward on its own. If it does both without issue, there is nothing wrong with your WASR.

Edited February 4, 2013 by mancat

[TYBOY 33]

The problem is consistent FTF's. While I had it apart, I noticed these other things. It will close when the bolt is allowed to slam foward on its own.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Well before you look into this too much more, just wait and see how it perfoms with live ammo and new mags at the range. With the current mags, its to hard to tell if theres more wrong without testing other mags to eliminate that from the equation.

[TYBOY 33]

Update

 

Only shot it with him once before, so all problems while shooting may not be known.

 

Headspacing is definately an issue. using just the bolt (ejector removed) it rotates and closes all the way. With a round in the chamber, it wont fully rotate and lock. I am using Wolf ammo as a baseline. I will fix this issue first and see how everything else falls in to place.

[mancat 2,368]

Even though people like to lay smack on Romanians, the headspacing is very unlikely to be wrong from the factory.

 

Like I said, Romanians and many Euro AKs tend to be on the tight end of headspacing. Many builders even replicate their setup by headspacing so that the bolt will only lockup 1/4 turn on a GO gauge. At this point it will lockup on a live round.

 

You should be able to lock in the bolt by pressing the top lug towards the right locking lug. You probably won't be able to turn it by the stem.

 

If you are going to mess with the headspacing, also remember that it is not changed on an AK by removing material from the face. Headspace is changed by removing material from the rear face of the bolt locking lugs - don't modify the trunnion. If you're going to do anything to them, I would start by polishing them lightly. There are only a few thousands of an inch between OK and FIELD (fucked).

 

Better know what you're getting into messing with headspace. I mean no offense by pointing out what may be obvious to you. I like people to keep their eyes and nose intact, etc.

Edited February 4, 2013 by mancat

[thebuns1 4,323]

I think Id just move the barrel in/out as needed if that was the case. I doubt its a headspace issue. The Romanian guns aint really shit like most think. Just different in some aspects. Out of spec headspace can be very dangerous amongst other things, and would have likely already have seen ruptured casings by now.

[TYBOY 33]

Even though people like to lay smack on Romanians, the headspacing is very unlikely to be wrong from the factory.

 

Like I said, Romanians and many Euro AKs tend to be on the tight end of headspacing. Many builders even replicate their setup by headspacing so that the bolt will only lockup 1/4 turn on a GO gauge. At this point it will lockup on a live round.

 

You should be able to lock in the bolt by pressing the top lug towards the right locking lug. You probably won't be able to turn it by the stem.

 

If you are going to mess with the headspacing, also remember that it is not changed on an AK by removing material from the face. Headspace is changed by removing material from the rear face of the bolt locking lugs - don't modify the trunnion. If you're going to do anything to them, I would start by polishing them lightly. There are only a few thousands of an inch between OK and FIELD (fucked).

 

Better know what you're getting into messing with headspace. I mean no offense by pointing out what may be obvious to you. I like people to keep their eyes and nose intact, etc.

Mancat,

 

My plan was this was to move the barrel foward to achieve proper head spacing and redrill and oversize the barrel retaining pin. I could probably remove some material from the back of the lugs and achieve the same outcome, but I thought this would be the correct fix.

[TYBOY 33]

I think Id just move the barrel in/out as needed if that was the case. I doubt its a headspace issue. The Romanian guns aint really shit like most think. Just different in some aspects. Out of spec headspace can be very dangerous amongst other things, and would have likely already have seen ruptured casings by now.

You posted before me. I guess there could be a serious alignment issue between the bolt and the barrel that only shows with the round in (trying to center itself in chamber creating a bind).

 

Like I said with a round in the chamber, the bolt will not fully rotate and lock. This would lead me to believe that there is no gap (head spacing) at all.

[thebuns1 4,323]

I was simply referring to properly headspacing a barrel to a reciever. Thats the method I was always told was the correct way of doing it. Ive never had to do one myself so its all hearsay.

 

But have you tried inserting a loaded mag, and pulling the charging handle back and release it so it can fly home on its own? Riding the bolt home with a round in the bolt will usually seize up or jamb on something on its way to the chamber.

[TYBOY 33]

Cpt,

 

Just tried it. If all the way back and let it slam home, it will normally close all the way. If you let it go any other place besides fully rear, it will not fully close.

[TYBOY 33]

I guess this rules out headspacing. It would not fully close if there was no gap in there without damaging the rounds. Ill look into some other possibilities with regards to the lugs that turn the bolt. Anyone have any good pics of the inside of a good trunnion.

[mancat 2,368]

The FTF in your first image would have nothing to do with headspacing, trunnion dimensions, or bullet guide dimensions. That's my take on it. Your most likely culprit is something going on in the rear latch region, or with the mags that you have.

 

Is that how the rifle fails when fired, or is that just how it fails when you hand cycled it gently earlier?

[TYBOY 33]

The FTF in your first image would have nothing to do with headspacing, trunnion dimensions, or bullet guide dimensions. That's my take on it. Your most likely culprit is something going on in the rear latch region, or with the mags that you have.

 

Is that how the rifle fails when fired, or is that just how it fails when you hand cycled it gently earlier?

Mancat,

 

I am out in the garage typing this and actually just fixed the problem with the binding. Like you just mentioned, it was the rear latch region. Looking at the bolt from the rear, the right rear side lug area was binding during the last 3/4's of the bolt locking up. Feels pretty good now. It will close fully by just letting the carrier fly from 1" back.

 

I will wait on the feeding issue until the new mags arrive so I can compare.

 

This is the reason I love this site. Lots of helpfull people.

 

 

Thanks guys,

 

 

Fordguy

[mancat 2,368]

Well shit, I just made photos for you right before you said that. Well here they are in case you still need them. Two 7.62x39 Romanians, WASR at left, AES-10B at right. Yes they need a little cleaning attention.

 

Edited February 5, 2013 by mancat

[TYBOY 33]

Mancat,

 

Thanks for taking the time for the photos and the helpfull answers. Your all right in my book.

 

Fordguy

[thebuns1 4,323]

Shit those aint dirty. lol. Mine are all filthy as shit right now, except my '74 that I shoot corrosive through.

 

But Im curious on what Fordguy had to do to free it up. Was it a burr? Was the bolt hanging on something in the carrier causing it to bind?

[TYBOY 33]

Shit those aint dirty. lol. Mine are all filthy as shit right now, except my '74 that I shoot corrosive through.

 

But Im curious on what Fordguy had to do to free it up. Was it a burr? Was the bolt hanging on something in the carrier causing it to bind?

I painted the bolt and inserted it with a round in it. Each time I turned it to lock up and it wouldnt, I would remove it and see where it was rubbing. I could see that it was pushing the aft end of the bolt to the right so I thought it would be coming from the right side of the bolt (rear lug area) pushing it foward. I{d rather modify the bolt than the trunnion so I just kept filing away that area on the bolt that had the paint being removed. Each time I filed a little, I painted it black again before trying it in the rifle. I did not see anything out of the ordinary on the trunnion side.

 

 

Fordguy

[TYBOY 33]

After modding the bolt, I wanted to somehow verify the headspacing was still ok. I cut the end off a couple of my feeler guage blades and shaped them to fit in the bolt, under the extractor where the round sits. My bolt would not close fully with any pieces more than .006" thick. It would lock up fine with the .005". I realize this is a "poor boy" way to do it but I believe the results to be pretty acurate. Also I know this was based on the Wolf rounds, but that is the only brand this thing is likely to see.

 

Fordguy