Is it safe to shoot 4 1/2 dram

[bartomark 8]

I picked up some Kent shells at Cabelas yesterday. They are 1.5oz. #6 steel shot and the velocity is listed at 1430fpm. This figures out to 4 1/2 dram. I got the shells for a combat shotgun shoot and figured that throwing 50% more ''lead'' each shot would be a good thing. I have a 4 port gun, cut down barrel with a perm. attatched  Monster Brake,18.25" overall, and an Auto Plug. I also run a buffer. This gun will run 2 3/4 dram reliably and I just want some opinion if going this hot could damage it. Being it is now banned it would not be easy to fix or replace.    

[gunfun 3,931]

Sure, so long as it is a 2 3/4" or 3" 12 ga shell. SAAMI specs are about max cartridge dimensions, critical dimensions and max pressure. No store like cabelas would sell something loaded to a higher than SAAMI pressure. Occasionally, you can see contract pistol ammo over SAAMI sold as +p+ sold through shops like SGAMMO .com, but I have never seen anyone sell shotgun shells that exceed SAAMI. It would just be too irresponsible. Frankly most people are unwilling to shoot Full house compliant 3" loads.

 

For comparison, there are several very common 1 oz slug loads in 3" mag that are over 1700 FPS. That means that they would be over 4.5 dr eq. The real issue is pressure, and the pressure levels are fine. Shells like this typically use a lot of slower burning powder to have a high pressure for a longer than normal time to achieve velocity.

 

The Dr eq scale is a very flawed system from a technical perspective. It is very useful as a comparison point for recoil and also works well to compare working energy at certain levels. i.e. trap loads. It's good for figuring out a minimum bench mark for what you can expect to cycle or figuring out how much recoil you can control efficiently. Don't expect it to do much more than that meaningfully though. You can be sure a higher DR EQ will have more recoil, but not necessarily that it will have more pressure. 

 

There are lots of good articles about what is wrong with the system if you are interested. 

Btw Steel #6 shot are fine for shooting waterfowl, but are a poor choice for any kind of defensive use. 

 

Steel loses velocity quickly so steel shot loads are typically loaded hotter to make up for that. This means the same impact at the target requires more impact at the shoulder.

[bartomark 8]

Sure, so long as it is a 2 3/4" or 3" 12 ga shell. SAAMI specs are about max cartridge dimensions, critical dimensions and max pressure. No store like cabelas would sell something loaded to a higher than SAAMI pressure. Occasionally, you can see contract pistol ammo over SAAMI sold as +p+ sold through shops like SGAMMO .com, but I have never seen anyone sell shotgun shells that exceed SAAMI. It would just be too irresponsible. Frankly most people are unwilling to shoot Full house compliant 3" loads.

 

For comparison, there are several very common 1 oz slug loads in 3" mag that are over 1700 FPS. That means that they would be over 4.5 dr eq. The real issue is pressure, and the pressure levels are fine. Shells like this typically use a lot of slower burning powder to have a high pressure for a longer than normal time to achieve velocity.

 

The Dr eq scale is a very flawed system from a technical perspective. It is very useful as a comparison point for recoil and also works well to compare working energy at certain levels. i.e. trap loads. It's good for figuring out a minimum bench mark for what you can expect to cycle or figuring out how much recoil you can control efficiently. Don't expect it to do much more than that meaningfully though. You can be sure a higher DR EQ will have more recoil, but not necessarily that it will have more pressure. 

 

There are lots of good articles about what is wrong with the system if you are interested. 

Btw Steel #6 shot are fine for shooting waterfowl, but are a poor choice for any kind of defensive use. 

 

Steel loses velocity quickly so steel shot loads are typically loaded hotter to make up for that. This means the same impact at the target requires more impact at the shoulder.

Thanks for the detailed response. I didn't think about  steel losing velocity quicker than lead but it makes sense that it would being lighter. I guess I was worried that a gun that will run light stuff might beat itself to death with the heavy loads. Especially since some shoots use 75-100 shells to complete.  I just hope that the Autoplug does its job....... 

Edited July 22, 2014 by bartomark

[gunfun 3,931]

The autoplug is meant to regulate for up to max loaded 2 3/4" shells. Not 3". 

 

But I modified mine to work for 3" as follows: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/gallery/album/1219-tac47-autoplug-gf-magnum-edition-mark-15/

Do so at your own risk. This plainly violates the warranty.

[Doug Hartley 526]

When you say combat shotgun shoot it sounds like some tactical shotgun matches I have attended. They always prohibit steel shot due to ricochets from steel targets that are used. If they are using steel targets do not use steel shot.

 

Doug

[read_the_wall 614]

When you say combat shotgun shoot it sounds like some tactical shotgun matches I have attended. They always prohibit steel shot due to ricochets from steel targets that are used. If they are using steel targets do not use steel shot.

 

Doug

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[gunfun 3,931]

When you say combat shotgun shoot it sounds like some tactical shotgun matches I have attended. They always prohibit steel shot due to ricochets from steel targets that are used. If they are using steel targets do not use steel shot.

 

Doug

 

Good catch- I completely missed that and was thinking of 'combat shotgun' as a description of the gun, not a game.

[bartomark 8]

Thanks I checked and most of is lead with only a couple of boxes steel. I will be sure not to mix them. I didnt think of ricochets. Thanks for mentioning it.

[scattergun10 125]

I thought you needed a special type of barrel to shoot steel shot? Won't it tear up a regular barrel?  

[HB of CJ 1,263]

Yes you probably could, but would you want too? What about your shoulder? The S12? Do you hand load shotgun shells? My S12 also now handles the light WW stuff, but only with the gas system wide open. I run the three different pucks and the 4 point adjustable gas block. I have NOT checked to see what ports I have. Maybe I should. Good project.

 

Any advantage at 3 gun to shoot the heavy loads? Would there be an advantage on follow up shots using a low pressure, high shot volume "pusher" load? I do not even know if you can shoot shot or if you need to only shoot slugs. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. Could you hand load up some low pressure, low recoiling shot/slug shells? HB of CJ (old coot)

 

I need to learn up more on 3 gun matches and the rules and stuff. How expensive is it? Funds right now are tight. Too many grandkids to dote on instead.

[gunfun 3,931]

I thought you needed a special type of barrel to shoot steel shot? Won't it tear up a regular barrel?  

 

S12 is fine for steel shot. Older barrels and some cheap junk new guns (*coughamount fury) have issues. Mostly it's a choke damage issue. If it is made after the mid 1980s forward, they will generally say "lead shot only" somewhere on the gun if it is a stupid model.