SGL-12 FCG?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Hey can someone who has an Arsenal S-12 please verify for me what kind of FCG they come with new? Is it an Arsenal US made FCG or does it have an original Russian one like the ones in the Vepr 12?

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Shows Arsenal in the pics at KVar. Bow looks much smoother than the Russian stuff. Most likely single stage.

[SGL 530]

It depends on the model.  The SGL12-61 has and -67 have U.S. FCGs.

The SGL12-07 , 08, 09 have original Russian FCGs.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Thanks I knew there had to be some variation. So what did they do for compliance on the ones with Russian FCGs? Were they not converted or what besides stock & HG did they sell em with? I know some came with Russian 8 rd mags so they had to be compliant somehow.

[SGL 530]

What follows is just my understanding, so if anyone has these models, be sure to check for yourself if compliance is on the line.

 

Apparently there was some change a few years back that allowed them to have evil features as long as the magazine was only 5 rounds.  I think this is how the VEPRs were allowed in the country.

 

 

On 07 models, there were no US parts at all, and it was only compliant with the stock 5 round magazine.

The 08's and 09's have a US handguard, so they are still a couple of parts short of using anything over 5 rounds.   You can change out 2 more parts and use US mags, or 5 parts to run Russian 8's.

 

 

The 61 & 67 are the only ones that came with enough US parts to be compliant with Russian 8’s.
They both have US FCGs, handguards and pistol grips.  The stock on the 61 is US,  but I’m unsure on the 67.  It’s a folder so it could be Russian in which case they may have dropped in their US made piston instead.

I feel that K-VAR was a bit negligent in the way they represented these.   The fact that they offered S12s pre-converted is awesome, but the 07, 08, & 09 models didn't mention anything about needing to swap parts to use larger magazines.  There are posts from members here that own these shotguns and never realized this.   There was even some confusion because the 08 and 09 mentioned 922r compliant parts in their product description, but did not mention that there were not enough of them to matter.  Being pre-converted, I think that a bold warning on the product page and literature would have been a good move for the sake of their customers.  I'm always very careful about compliance but other customers may not even know to look into this issue.   All of their rifles are compliant with foreign mags, so many people assume that the shotguns are as well.

Being a member here, maybe KVAR can jump in and correct me if I got any of this wrong but this is my understanding based on a lot of reading and inspecting parts on these guns.

 

 

(Edited for typo)

Edited November 7, 2014 by SGL

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Exactly.... hence my own confusion. I work on the internals of all Saigas, Veprs, and other AK variants so I try to invest in at least one of every model I can afford to get, just to get familiar enough with each model to answer any question about them. Up until the first order of real (Red Dragun) 030's fell through and I didn't get one of them, I still had every other Saiga rifle and shotgun imported to that point... except that abomination the .30-06... Then I chose to just get the Molot Vepr -12 over the SGL or any of those other ones with magwells, LRBHO's etc. So now there are just a couple of things I'm not yet able to study myself for my own knowledge (like those actual 4 round mags and this FCG / compliance issue...).

 

 Just trying to stay ahead of the game here.

[SGL 530]

SGL12-07 - All Russian

​SGL12-08 - All Russian Except Handguard

SGL12-09 - All Russian Except Handguard

SGL12-61 - US Buttstock, US Pistol Grip, US Handguard, US FCG

SGL12-67 - Unknown Folding Buttstock, US Pistol Grip, US Handguard, US FCG, (US Piston?)

Edited November 7, 2014 by SGL