19" barrel Saiga 12 model info?

[GuyFoX 24]

Edited October 11, 2009 by GuyFoX

[HillBilly2 9]

I'll try to get this started. Once upon a time There were Saiga 12's with various barrel lengths and choke options. Centerfire is correct about the models. The 108 has a sight rail and adjustable sights the 109 has fixed sights. The new guns imported today are mostly 19" threaded barrels with a thread protector. I have one of each and would recommend the fixed sight model 109. Adjustable sights on a shotgun is not a necessity and if you really want one you would probably want to go with an aftermarket solution.

 

All current imports are thru RAA. The idiot on gunbroker was a snake oil salesman trying to make his gun out to be something special. While there are some differences, such as the early guns did not have a bolt hold open, there are no significant differences that would make one stronger than another. All of their guns are warranted, you will not find any problems they cannot take care of promptly. While the vodka special issues did occur for a short period of time, it is unlikely you will find them on the guns imported now.

 

As to the Russian guns like the Vepr, I doubt they will ever be imported. Izhmash now produces both Saiga and Vepr. They are selling a boat load of Saiga's here at a time when their sales in other divisions are down. I don't think they would do anything to rock the boat where their import license is concerned. That's just my opinion of course. Go ahead and get your S12, and convert it to the configuration you like. IF or when they import another model you could trade up for it, or you might find that you like what you have after all. If you wait for the latest and greatest you will always be waiting, because there's always something new on the horizon.

[GuyFoX 24]

  On 10/11/2009 at 12:11 PM, HillBilly2 said:

I'll try to get this started.

Thanks, I appreciate the help. Where is everybody else?

 

In my search for Saiga info I came across a post on another firearm forum from another Saiga newb asking many of the same questions. He was told to come here for info, and seems to be about as confused and having the same problems finding basic Saiga starter info as I am. He said:

  SaigaNewbie said:

am i looking at the same http://www.saiga-12.com as everyone else? That site seems like a place for hardcore saiga nerds

(I'm sure he meant that in the most positive way, I think he was just a bit overwhelmed/intimidated by all of the technical convert/mod info, when just looking for a simple introduction).

  SaigaNewbie said:

I went there as a newbie looking for some basic information and couldn't find it. One basic question i have is there multiple versions/generations of the saiga12? Are there "bad" versions to stay clear of?

There is LOTS of in-depth technical info here about conversions/modifications and accessories, but I think this forum could use a revised FAQ, library, or section devoted to all the BASIC Saiga info for us newbs; such as info about the different models available with info detailing their exact specs and different features, what those features do, which ones are important for different purposes, how to use the tools that come with the gun, and the basics of the rifle's operation(PICTURES demonstrating said tools and operation would be especially helpful); and also what to look for or avoid when shopping for your first Saiga(especially info written for those such as myself who are unfamiliar with shotguns & AKs). I'm a little embarrassed to be here asking for such basic information and feeling like such an ignorant newb. I know enough to know that I REALLY WANT a Saiga 12 and once I understand it will be VERY happy with it, but the learning process is a bit awkward, especially since I am TOTALLY new to AKs AND shotguns.

 

  HillBilly2 said:

Once upon a time There were Saiga 12's with various barrel lengths and choke options.

Once upon a time? Are you saying there are less options available now than there once were?

 

  HillBilly2 said:

Centerfire is correct about the models. The 108 has a sight rail and adjustable sights the 109 has fixed sights. The new guns imported today are mostly 19" threaded barrels with a thread protector. I have one of each and would recommend the fixed sight model 109. Adjustable sights on a shotgun is not a necessity and if you really want one you would probably want to go with an aftermarket solution.

OK, thanks, I'm on the same page on that part, finally.

 

  HillBilly2 said:

The idiot on gunbroker was a snake oil salesman trying to make his gun out to be something special. While there are some differences, such as the early guns did not have a bolt hold open, there are no significant differences that would make one stronger than another.

Yeah, I had a feeling that guy was BSing to make a sale, and I certainly wouldn't call a missing part a "strength"(though I'm again embarrassed to admit that I don't even FULLY understand the function(s?) of the BHO yet).

 

  HillBilly2 said:

All current imports are thru RAA. All of their guns are warranted, you will not find any problems they cannot take care of promptly. While the vodka special issues did occur for a short period of time, it is unlikely you will find them on the guns imported now.

Is there any detailed information about the specifics of the RAA warranty? I looked at their page and didn't find ANYTHING about it, which seems odd. I would think if they are importing them that they would publicize or at least clearly document their warranty to build customer confidence?

 

  HillBilly2 said:

As to the Russian guns like the Vepr, I doubt they will ever be imported. Izhmash now produces both Saiga and Vepr. They are selling a boat load of Saiga's here at a time when their sales in other divisions are down. I don't think they would do anything to rock the boat where their import license is concerned. That's just my opinion of course. Go ahead and get your S12, and convert it to the configuration you like. IF or when they import another model you could trade up for it, or you might find that you like what you have after all. If you wait for the latest and greatest you will always be waiting, because there's always something new on the horizon.

I still don't really understand why they wouldn't make their new and improved Saigas available for import, as I would think that would only increase their sales and reputation. But I guess they aren't, so I'll just work with what IS available.

 

I guess the main thing for me right now is just trying to learn about the BASICS of the Saiga. I've been searching here and all over the web, and have only really been finding more advanced technical info about conversions and modifications for those already VERY familiar with this weapons system, but not the simple introductory information that I need at this point. Even the "WELCOME, NEW USERS READ THIS FIRST! FAQ" thread doesn't have the BASIC info needed for those as painfully uneducated on this rifle's function as me, and many of the links are outdated and/or broken. If anyone can point me in the direction of the fundamental Saiga intro info that I'm looking for I would be MOST grateful, as I am obviously in need of some illustrated Saiga 12 for dummies guidance. Gawd, it will be such a relief when I finally learn the basics and can involve myself in the more advanced aspects and not look like such an ignorant ass; but we all have to start somewhere, and right now I'm obviously at square one. SOS!

(and yes, I have UTFS, but have thus far been unable to find what I'm looking for.)

[scoutjoe 280]

  On 10/18/2009 at 10:46 AM, GuyFoX said:

 

I guess the main thing for me right now is just trying to learn about the BASICS of the Saiga. I've been searching here and all over the web, and have only really been finding more advanced technical info about conversions and modifications for those already VERY familiar with this weapons system, but not the simple introductory information that I need at this point. Even the "WELCOME, NEW USERS READ THIS FIRST! FAQ" thread doesn't have the BASIC info needed for those as painfully uneducated on this rifle's function as me, and many of the links are outdated and/or broken. If anyone can point me in the direction of the fundamental Saiga intro info that I'm looking for I would be MOST grateful, as I am obviously in need of some illustrated Saiga 12 for dummies guidance. Gawd, it will be such a relief when I finally learn the basics and can involve myself in the more advanced aspects and not look like such an ignorant ass; but we all have to start somewhere, and right now I'm obviously at square one. SOS!

(and yes, I have UTFS, but have thus far been unable to find what I'm looking for.)

 

Basic of the Saiga is the basic of an AK, basically

 

Seriously the only minor difference is the Bolt Hold Open on the rifles, on the shotguns the gas system is a little different but its not by leaps and bounds. I'm more of a mechanical hands on person, so I could read tutorials for days but until I'm actually stripping the gun apart I don't completely understand.

 

Another option to have could be to pester somebody with a bunch of questions, my message box is pretty empty

[havok 21]

S-12s years ago had fixed choke, No threaded barrel. The new ones have a threaded barrel so you can change chokes and muzzel attacments.

If you plan on changing sights get the 109. If you want to keep the stock sights get the 108.

If it's broke they RAA will fix it, its a simple as that, if the gun is new. No print warrenty to make you feel all warm a fuzz on the inside.

The BHO holds the bolt open for you when you engage it.

Type Saiga12 on you tube there is a video for every prosess on this gun. I think I even seen one that shows you how to insert a mag.

Or just get the gun and learn the basics with the s-12 in your hands.

Do as everyone else does and read this web site all night and all day for a few weeks you will be up to date in no time.

 

Edit- Your wheelchair is BADASS.

Edited October 18, 2009 by havok