Russian .223 HP balistics/terminal effects?

[Krom 36]

I can't really seem to find any good info on the terminal proformance of russian .223 HPs..

 

Since I have a saiga .223 I can obviously run pretty much any ammo reliably but I want to but I want to biuld up a supply of SHTF type ammo and that is cheap and terminally effective. What do you guys reccomend in .223? I was thinking bear 62gr HPs possibly.

 

I started thinking about this when comparing .223 and 5.45 to each other in another thread. Cause 5.45 has good terminal effect very cheap compared to the .223 it seems I have to pay much more for a good round to get stopping power on two legged deer.

[Krom 36]

Oppinions welcome... anyone?

[jimdigriz 580]

Oppinions welcome... anyone?

 

The only thing I've read is that the Russian 223 doesn't fragment. That seems to be "common knowledge", but I don't know what the real source of it is. If true, you definitely get way more bang for your buck with 5.45.

 

The biggest bummer about ballistics is that there is so much conflicting information. 5.45 is either devastating in soft tissue, or a big disappointment, depending on what study you ready. Either the Spetsnaz loved it, or they hated it, by various accounts. 7.62 has more knockdown power, or is it that it just pokes a hole and keeps going, while 223 is the _real_ devastating round?

 

Who knows?

[Paulry 50]

What this boils down to is the domestic .223 FMJ ammo is made with copper jackets. The Russians use steel jackets.

[Krom 36]

I hear the steel jacket thing,

 

but it seems that a round moving between 2500-3000fps with a open tip would frag regardless of the jacket. I know that russian 7.62x39 HP will frag/open up pretty well and it is the same construction as far as I know and it is moving at a slower verbosity too.

 

I can't be the only one who really wants to know if russian .223 HP is decent defensive ammo.

[JulianH 4]

Buy a box and fire some into water filled jugs, then go find the projectile(or what's left of it). You might have to line up several jugs in a row to successfully stop the bullet. This should at least answer your question as to whether they tend to frag. Go look around at Box of Truth for their setup, they've done similar testing. In fact, if you send them a box or two they might do it for you, they seem to jump at any chance to shoot something.

[christcorp 26]

Forget the hague convention and all the reasons the military uses FMJ. If you truly were in a SHTF scenario, you aren't going to be in any stand-off type situation with any type of society with any stability. If you did; you'd either be dead or in jail. In other words, just because another katrina happened, other natural disaster, etc....; anything short of a Red-Dawn scenario; you're not going to be opening up with mags and mags of rounds. It's not going to happen. That's not to say the .223 can't be a defensive weapon. But you're not going to be shooting hundreds of rounds. I keep my original 10 round saiga clip loaded with Pointed Soft Point bullets. They are perfect for deer size animals. (Which people fit into that category). I don't load up 30 round mags, because 1) Unless there is NO LAW at all, shooting magazines full of ammo isn't going to happen or be necessary. 2) It's easier to shoot 10 round magazines in a close quarter environment such as in my house or property that someone is trying to steal from.

 

So; I keep about 3-4 boxes of Pointed Soft Point. As for plinking; whatever is the cheapest. Usually FMJ. Sometimes HP. I've bought plenty of PMC Bronze .223 FMJ on sale for $6.75 locally at a gun store. I've bought plenty of Federal FMJ in value packs at walmart, equal to $8 a box of 20. And I've bought Silver Bear and Wolf for between $4.50 - $5.50. Some FMJ, some HP. And I keep around 500 rounds for plinking. But if I'm WRONG; and there are such things as ZOMBIES. Or the people are right who think Die-Hard, Lethal Weapon, and Red-Dawn are true scenarios and not just hollywood movies; then I feel that the FMJ that I use to plink with, will work just as fine for defensive purposes.

[Krom 36]

I can think of plenty of SHTF situations where you might need several 30rnd magazines to finish the fight. But the point is, I prefer to shoot and train with the ammo I would use in a SHTF situation, and I think resupplying on ammo can't be counted on, so stock up. Which brings us back to my original topic. Basically how much terminal performance vs cost do you get out of russian HP ammo?

[christcorp 26]

You mean, which round will make another person "More Dead"? Well, there's only 3 types of ammo for the .223/5.56. FMJ, HP, or PSP. Personally, the PSP is the most lethal. It has the penetration of a FMJ without over-penetrating. It has expansion like a HP, without the possibility of fragmenting or breaking apart. Now, do you need cases of it? That's up to you. But if you limit your ammo to the cheaper russian ammo, then the PSP can be found, in Brown Bear and Wolf. But it is extremely rare. Fortunately, the price is about the same as the fmj or hp. But whether against people or animals, the SP is going to be a better round. Pistols are obviously different because they are so slow. But at the 3000 fps range, SP is the way to go in my opinion.