Jake 98c/11b 0 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 We have had a few Saiga 12 ga shipped to Colonial Arms to be set up for Remchoke tubes. One of the three returned with issues, it now throws slugs a bit over a foot and a half off where it used to. The owner of the company insists that it is not possible to have the point of impact change (but then gave several reasons how it could happen). Has anyone else had a similar issues when installing choke tubes? Is there a solution to the problem? It looks like the reamer did not go in square to the bore, you can see where one side of the bore has been gouged by the reamer while the other side remains untouched. The chrome lining is cut out uneven near the end of the barrel and the bore looks rough at that spot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) sorry to hear about that Jake, I think the best thing is to cut the barrel back a few more inches and re-thread it. From what you described that's all I can think of. I agree with Kmoore if Colonial does not want to stand behind the work they do then I for one will be taking my business some place else. I'm sure you made darn sure they screwed up before posting this thread. The fact that the choke tube does not go in to the barrel squarly tells me the crown is off at the very least. Sounds like the tap was off when they threaded the barrel so they need to fix it. If they don't fix the problem and make you happy let us know. Edited July 21, 2005 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I would be shipping that back to them to FIX... If they will... or even IF they can.... might be too far gone, to fix without as mentioned, CUTTING the barrel back and redoing it... sounds to me like they REALLY BONED your barrel on that one, bro... hope it turns out ok for you....thats a real shame... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I would be shipping that back to them to FIX... If they will... or even IF they can....might be too far gone, to fix without as mentioned, CUTTING the barrel back and redoing it... sounds to me like they REALLY BONED your barrel on that one, bro... hope it turns out ok for you....thats a real shame... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> +1 on this and Topmauls Quote. These choke tubes were put in wrong! A long time back, I remember hearing how sometimes double bbl shotguns would not shoot both bbls to the same POA. One attempted fix was to intentionally choke the bbl a little canted to move the impact. With this much deviation, you are undoubtable right. However, I would ask a friend or two for a doublecheck, maybe run a couple of brands of slugs too. But 1.5 ft really doesn't leave any doubt. I'd be VERY interested to see how they handle their work, please keep us updated. I'll have a bbl to be threaded soon and would like to know how they stand behind their work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 Demand that they stand by their work. If you get no satisfaction report them to the BBB, and let us know how it goes. Anyone can FU , but what seperates the good companies from the bad is how they handle their screw-ups! I have recommended Colonial several times due to positive opinion of people that have had work done there. If they are no-longer doing reliable work, and /or are no longer intrested in customer service, I will certainly not steer any future work their way! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Mac at Colonial Arms has reluctantly agreed to take my Saiga 12 back to "look at it." No promises made nor any real guarantees other than that. The Saiga was definately shooting straight before as I installed adjustable sights front and rear to take advantage of long distance slug shooting in certain stages. Now with the threaded barrel (and Polychoke) I'm a foot high and a foot right at only 25 yds. With a Remchoke it's off only half that. I'll keep the board notified of Colonial's response. RonSwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jake 98c/11b 0 Posted July 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Ron, all three guns sent in returned with one side of the bore gouged out a bit but yours is the only one that won't print on paper now. MickPorno reported a shift in his point of impact as well but his was easy to correct for as the deviation was minor. As far as I know gun #3 has not been used enough to detect any POI shift. When speaking to the owner of Colonial Arms he said that it was not possible for the piloted reamer to go in canted but he never did address how things could be consistently off (all three barrels showed similar marks near the muzzle. I don't think the man ever heard that part because he kept interrupting before I could finish a question or statement. Having answered the same question from 35 customers in a week I understand how this can happen on a bad day. When I first called to see if they could do Saiga's I was told that they had to make a special fixture to hold the guns (most barrels are cut from the chamber end but since the barrel can't be easily removed the Saiga is done from the muzzle end)and that they had done over a dozen Saiga's. When I asked if their fixture had come out of alignment they said that that was not possible and that a piloted cutter could not have entered at an angle. I asked how all three showed similar signs if it couldn't happen but he began to answer a different question before I finished. I understand there are several possible reasons for the shift in the point of impact but since all three guns show similar signs it did raise a few questions. I (and Ron too) will keep everyone posted on things as things progress. On a similar note we did receive a few guns back from Polychoke and the vented Polychoke looks Badass on the muzzle end of the gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 After serious thought about the shotgun, I decided to try to remedy the problem myself. Colonial Arms pretty much had a "sucks to be you" attitude when I first called and I could tell they really did not want to aknowledge any possible problems with their work. I checked the barrel bore by removing the action and clamping the reciever in a rifle rest aimed at point 100 yds. Sure enough, the barrel was bent slightly. I know this did not happen before the shotgun was shipped to Colonial as I was still using it in competitions. Clamping the reciever in a padded vise, I used a 3/4 Ridgid EMT (conduit) bender to bring the point on impact back to center. This took some time as I had to bench in rifle rest, shoot, check group, clamp in vise, apply EMT bender and repeat process. Groups at 25 yds. are now 2 inches above bullseye and the sights are centered. Needless to say I cannot recommend Colonial for customer service. RonSwin Ron, all three guns sent in returned with one side of the bore gouged out a bit but yours is the only one that won't print on paper now. MickPorno reported a shift in his point of impact as well but his was easy to correct for as the deviation was minor. As far as I know gun #3 has not been used enough to detect any POI shift. When speaking to the owner of Colonial Arms he said that it was not possible for the piloted reamer to go in canted but he never did address how things could be consistently off (all three barrels showed similar marks near the muzzle. I don't think the man ever heard that part because he kept interrupting before I could finish a question or statement. Having answered the same question from 35 customers in a week I understand how this can happen on a bad day. When I first called to see if they could do Saiga's I was told that they had to make a special fixture to hold the guns (most barrels are cut from the chamber end but since the barrel can't be easily removed the Saiga is done from the muzzle end)and that they had done over a dozen Saiga's. When I asked if their fixture had come out of alignment they said that that was not possible and that a piloted cutter could not have entered at an angle. I asked how all three showed similar signs if it couldn't happen but he began to answer a different question before I finished. I understand there are several possible reasons for the shift in the point of impact but since all three guns show similar signs it did raise a few questions. I (and Ron too) will keep everyone posted on things as things progress. On a similar note we did receive a few guns back from Polychoke and the vented Polychoke looks Badass on the muzzle end of the gun. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 After serious thought about the shotgun, I decided to try to remedy the problem myself. Colonial Arms pretty much had a "sucks to be you" attitude when I first called and I could tell they really did not want to aknowledge any possible problems with their work. I checked the barrel bore by removing the action and clamping the reciever in a rifle rest aimed at point 100 yds. Sure enough, the barrel was bent slightly. I know this did not happen before the shotgun was shipped to Colonial as I was still using it in competitions. Clamping the reciever in a padded vise, I used a 3/4 Ridgid EMT (conduit) bender to bring the point on impact back to center. This took some time as I had to bench in rifle rest, shoot, check group, clamp in vise, apply EMT bender and repeat process. Groups at 25 yds. are now 2 inches above bullseye and the sights are centered. Needless to say I cannot recommend Colonial for customer service. RonSwin <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dude! you never cease to amaze me! Way to adapt and overcome. Given the strength of the bbl on a Saiga, it would take quite a wack to bend it and a pretty strong arm to restraighten it. So, I think you might have a business niche to fill here. You could be a barrel bender and specialize in HD firearms that shoot around corners. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Bent barrel sounds like gorrilla's working for the shipping company. It take one HELL of a blow to bend a S-12 barrel! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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