Optics

[Macx 2]

First off, I'd like to ask ya'll what sort of optics you have on your Saiga's, what distances & settings you usually shoot at & what kind of results you routinely see, i.e. PSO-1 at 100 yards punching paper from a rest or CDNN Weaver mount with a red dot taking deer from stand 1 shot one kill. Just want to knwo what ya'll are using now & how ya like it for what you use it for.

 

The second part of my question is, what is the ideal optic set up for punching paper usually unsupported at <100 yards . . . . with an emphasis on cost effective (yeah sure I'd love to mount up an ACOG but it just isn't in the budget) I am looking at +or- $100, anything out there that will work, stay zeroed and on the gun, which I can afford?

 

P.S. I promise not to shoot any live rounds of the back stop Per BVamp

[PM2790 0]

Dollarwise, I think you are ahead to stay with Russian optics. The 4x24mm fits your price range and meets your needs out to a couple hundred yards. These fit well and slide on and off easily. If you want a separate mount and scope combo, you might look at the Belarus mount ($40 either high or low mount) and a BSA 6-24x40mm with illuminated reticle in the $90 to $100 range. Any magnification above 12-14 power is a waste due to mirage and weapon shake, but checking bullet holes is a lot easier with a variable scope. Good luck with your choice.

[Macx 2]

My local dealer has a couple that look like this:

 

but I have heard of problems with some scope mounts falling off and some discussion of three different types of mounts. . . . What you say makes sense, but I want to make sure that I am buying the right set up (before I leave the store). It seems that buying a scope, taking it to the range and firing a few shots to see if it falls off is a good way to make sure you have a hard time returning the thing if ya bought the wrong one. Is the difference in 4x24 vs. 4x42 significant enough that I should focus on the 42?

 

Edited to correct, I realize I should have asked 4x24 vs. 6x24 vs. 6x42 . .. . I realize there is a difference between the magnification of the 4 & 6 and objective lens size in 24 vs. 42 . . . but please bear in mind I am making my first real transition away from iron sights --> ya can't get too basic for me.

Edited May 26, 2004 by Macx

[Macx 2]

BTT

 

 

I know there have to be more of ya out there that have scoped your Saiga's. I have read the Tantal (sp) site & done topical searches on this and other boards, I'm not being lazy & I don't have plans to "publish" your secrets, I just want to know:

 

In your experience with Saiga .308's, what works and what doesn't. Please help.

[rock47 1]

A Saiga or Vepr or even a Romanian for that matter will never have their side-rail scope mounts just fall off! Thats a MYTH, big time!

 

Maybe somebodys home job or an outright lie by some novice trying to get you to buy his AR or something in that range of rehtoric!

 

If a Saiga side-rail falls off, then well you probably won't have a face anymore, because the gun probably just blew-up! Because those side-rails are pinned in to the reicever so good it will take plastic explosives to shear them off. there pinned in just as could as the barrel is and if there falling off then, I guess the barrels will too!

 

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

 

bUY A 6x42 PSOP scope from CDNN. Not the 6x24 it's just not enough of a opening and does not gather enough light or give you any field of view. Also the 6x42 and 8x42 are better made and their illuminated and they will give you a great in between a 4x and a 10x. Just like my old grandpas 30-06 had a straight weaver 6x. Well many a standing and running deer and elk fell to that combo. A 6x is great for hunting with. Good field ov view and no hassle.

Plus the PSOP scopes from Russia are specifically made for Kalashnikov weapons. They have a greater range of adjustment than our American scopes. This will come in handy and the scopes knobs are strong and easy to use.

The PSOP's also have a illuminated reticle and the reticle itself is a marvelous work of art. Designed for both preciscion and fast shots at moving targets it incorporates an unique european sight picture with bullet drop compensation for every 100m out 800m. There is also a very simple and easy to use plus very accurate range reticle off to the side. Base on the common length of measurement. Which you can use to range quicker, as accurate and simplier than the MILDOT system.

I have an 8x42 and love it, but it's on my VEPR that I am selling here on this forum. So I will try next the Varialble SVD scope in 4-12x50. There about $300. Only about $100 bucks more than I paid for my 8x42, but that's before the PSOP's dropped in price this last year.

Can't wait to hear what you'll do.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

Edited May 28, 2004 by rock47

[PM2790 0]

I think what you may have heard is that the scope and mount have moved under recoil. Usually this is a problem of clamp adjustment. Sometimes, though the wrong mount is chosen. I am unaware of the rail (the part permanently attached to the receiver) ever falling off.

To make sure you get the right product: a) Ask the dealer if it fits your particular rifle, Ask if you can bring your rifle in and have them fit it to your rifle, c) Ask if it fails or slips if it is returnable.

It might be helpful to consider the exit pupil size when weighing the pros and cons. The exit pupil is the size of the image that exits the rear of the scope and enters your eye. The average human eye has a pupil size of about 5 mm. If the image is smaller than that you will have to 'hunt' for the image by moving your head around to find the sweet spot. If it is larger, you will be able to find it easier (less bobbing and weaving of your head, up/down/front/back/sideways) and it will appear brighter. All other things being equal as far as lens quality, you can find the exit pupil by dividing the objective lens diameter by the magnification power. Thus, a 6x24mm would be 4mm, an 8x42mm would be5.25mm, a 4x24mm would be 6mm and the 6x42mm would be 7mm.

As you say, you are new to scopes. A problem with higher magnification can be the mental transition from 0 magnification. It will take some practice on your part to bring the rifle up to your eye and then quickly place the crosshairs on your target. You might note that back in the post WW2 era when optical sights were just catching on with the general public, that a 4x scope was considered plenty and that 6x and above were considered specialty items. In the late sixties when I slapped a K6 Weaver on my new Ted Williams .270, I thought I was cutting edge. Couldn't afford the high dollar variables on my hay baling earnings. Now there is a flood of 3-9x variables for less than $100 that are as good or better than the majority of anything available back then. Times change. I have the 4-12x SVD scope on my 22" .308 Saiga. It is a major piece of machinery and can allow you to wring out the accuracy potential of a rifle. It does cost more than the 4x24 or 6x42 PSOP scopes. But heck, it does look cool and I've heard that chicks really dig them. Who knows? Good luck on your purchase.

[Macx 2]

Thanks guys, I knew you would come through for me. Sounds like 6x42 is the way I want to go. Illumination is an important feature to me. . . . I didn't realize some of the POSP series weren't - thanks for the heads up. Your exit pupil advise is exacttly the kind of educating I need.

 

I do have an ancient 3-6xsomething variable scope with non-functional adjustment knobs (can't get it to zero any closer than point of impact 6 inches left of point of aim on my .22 @ 10 yards ) I use the scope off the rifle just to see my holes down range, like a spotting scope & never really understood why it was so hard to get my eye on an image through it.

 

PM2790, you are right it was stories of ". . . the scope and mount have moved under recoil. Usually this is a problem of clamp adjustment. Sometimes, though the wrong mount is chosen." rather than ". . . the rail (the part permanently attached to the receiver) ever falling off." that I was concerned about. Sorry I didn't phrase that part of my Q well. Thanks for understanding what I meant rather than what I said.

[rock47 1]

There are two styles of Russian side-rail mounts.

These are the VM (SVD) and the TM (AK). You got to know which style you have on your rifle.

 

My Vepr has SVD mounts, they are better.

 

My Saiga-12 has AK mounts and that's all it needs for the Kobra it sports.

 

My thinking is your Saiga has AK mounts, but I don't own a Saiga .308 so I don't know. Check out kalinkaoptics.com or nightvisionweb.net for a better understanding, they have good visuals and more tech info than you'll understand.

Edited May 28, 2004 by rock47

[rock47 1]

I often use the sights and mounts, TM and VM interchangeably and have great results!

[Puppage 0]

Russian PKS from Tantal. A great setup.

[gunslinger308 0]

I got a 4-8x42 illuminated scope for my Saiga 308. It was easy to zero and holds the zero when i unmount and mount the scope. Two weeks ago I went shooting and mounted the scope about four times( getting in and out of the truck and setting up in different places) and still hit a 12"x20" target at 500 yards with the first shot. IMPRESSIVE! I'm excited at least.

 

My scope came from Russia

 

Belarus.nightvision

 

The scope was $148 and 3 different colored lamps for it for$4 apiece, all of it arived within ten days at my doorstep in Texas.

 

Just email them and ask about different scopes because they didn't even list mine but have alot of differnt things in stock.

[Macx 2]

Thanks man! That looks like the kind of price I was hoping for. Leaning toward the 8x42, but the adjustable you mention sounds like the thing to jump on if possible.