twinhairdryers 2 Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 I am up to four of the AGP mags now, and AGP mags now. Today at the range every one of them pushed the top shell into the very bottom of the chamber, catching, and FTF/FTB since the chamber would'nt close with a round in it. I know this came up earlier, but what was the solution? I tried 5 different types of ammo and ruled it out. Has anyone tried "tuning" their mag feed lips to increase the angle of the top shell? I hate to bend up the nice new and improved spring lips and ruin them. any suggestions? To make matters worse, the very bottom of the chamber where the barrel meets the chamber has a gap in it so is not a completely smooth entrance point for a shell (worst point to go low in). 150 rounds through my 5 and 8 rounds - 0 issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 I am up to four of the AGP mags now, and AGP mags now. Today at the range every one of them pushed the top shell into the very bottom of the chamber, catching, and FTF/FTB since the chamber would'nt close with a round in it. I know this came up earlier, but what was the solution? I tried 5 different types of ammo and ruled it out. Has anyone tried "tuning" their mag feed lips to increase the angle of the top shell? I hate to bend up the nice new and improved spring lips and ruin them. any suggestions? To make matters worse, the very bottom of the chamber where the barrel meets the chamber has a gap in it so is not a completely smooth entrance point for a shell (worst point to go low in). 150 rounds through my 5 and 8 rounds - 0 issues. I had a similar problem after changing from stainless to spring steel feed lip this week. 3 inch feed ok but with the 2 3/4" I had the same problem. (first round only) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 I just got a big hunk of PVC to make some S-20 follower ramps. How much lift does it need? I have heard of this too, but my mags don't do it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) F that man. Let me tell you what worked for me. If you have the same prob that I did than hopefully this will help. Take a look at the feed lips of a factory fiver compared the the AGP mags. Note any differences? I did. My fiver's feed lips has a steeper angle than my AGP mags on the most advanced angle (closest to the hook in front). Also note the position of the shell's rim in relation to this angle when your AGP mags jam. From that point forward I polished off the smallest bit of material (ill probably polish it just a bit more). This made the shell itself release from the feed lips and the follower took care of the rest. Granted a ramp would help, but I havent had a jam related to my new AGP magazines. If you need pics ill throw them up here for you. Both of my mags would NOT chamber the tenth round at all, now they do without fail. On a closed bolt at that. Edited February 17, 2007 by Azkamidaka Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badman400 3 Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 AZ, I'd love to see those pics if it's not too much trouble! Mean avatar BTW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Ty Ty, im working on those images now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Ok gents, this is what i have. I really hope this helps. Ive received so much help from the forums that I really want to give back and since I am no parts designer, perhaps this could be my big break. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Nice eye you have...Thanks for the pics. Dunno why some have trouble and others don't. Maybe slightly different entry geometry on the guns? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wayne grow 0 Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Hey all, I've got a different take on the problem and solution. I've experienced the shell getting fed low and rammed into the block beneath the ramp as described above. For me this has occurred with primarily 2 3/4 shells and seems to happen most frequently with the first five shells or so through the 10 round AGP mags. I put only about 100 Barnaul law enforcement shells through five of these mags, so kind of a small sample, but that was basically what happened. Yes, I realize others had reported similar problems so I did the light sanding and graphite dry lubing before going to the range. FTF as above still occurred. I know others had noticed the follower didn't seem to be popping up fast enough(or completely enough) for the shell to get picked up correctly by the bolt. As I compared my factory mags to my AGP mags, and pushed the top shell down with some thumb pressure(say with 8 rounds in the mag), then let it pop up again, I noticed that the plastic plates(about 1 cm wide) that project from the sides of the top part of the body of the mag, just beneath the feed lips, were gripping the shells tighter than the factory bodies. I used a dremmel and some more aggressive sanding on these side-stablizing plastic plates to take them down to about 50% the original proudness. Have not yet been to the range with the experimented mag but pushing the shells down with thumb now demonstrates that they pop up with noticeably more snap. Have been able to rapidly hand cycle a few mag -fulls without FTF so I'm optimistic. Of note, these side platsic projections which are there to stablize either side of the top shell, seem to have an upward inclined ramp formed into them, presumably to guide the shell up. I was worried that taking them down would change the attitude of the shells as they feed, but that didn't seem to happen. Again, I didn't sand them down all the way, just about 50% of original. Thanks to all who make this a great place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Nice eye you have...Thanks for the pics.Dunno why some have trouble and others don't. Maybe slightly different entry geometry on the guns? Yeah I would imagine. After all the welding during my conversion my fiver no longer goes into the mag well without a serious fight. My 10 rounders dont have an issue (so neither do i) but our guns seem to be made to morph a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twinhairdryers 2 Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Nice eye you have...Thanks for the pics.Dunno why some have trouble and others don't. Maybe slightly different entry geometry on the guns? Yeah I would imagine. After all the welding during my conversion my fiver no longer goes into the mag well without a serious fight. My 10 rounders dont have an issue (so neither do i) but our guns seem to be made to morph a bit. I did notice that the AGP mags are just slightly smaller than factory. Every one of my factory 5 and 8 rounds took a little bit of sanding to get to lock into the well without a good fight. The AGPs snapped right in with absolutely nothing required. I thought my magwell was a bit narrower than the average S-12 (if there is such a thing as average - I think the standard deviation on russian steele in these is 1/4 inch or so in any dimension). thanks for the top on the feed lip mod - very clear photos. I do believe that this certainly isn't going to hurt anything, and may even be the solution! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twinhairdryers 2 Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) I am up to four of the AGP mags now, and AGP mags now. Today at the range every one of them pushed the top shell into the very bottom of the chamber, catching, and FTF/FTB since the chamber would'nt close with a round in it. I know this came up earlier, but what was the solution? I tried 5 different types of ammo and ruled it out. Has anyone tried "tuning" their mag feed lips to increase the angle of the top shell? I hate to bend up the nice new and improved spring lips and ruin them. any suggestions? To make matters worse, the very bottom of the chamber where the barrel meets the chamber has a gap in it so is not a completely smooth entrance point for a shell (worst point to go low in). 150 rounds through my 5 and 8 rounds - 0 issues. Interesting thing happened at the range. A swat team had just finished up on the rifle side and a guy was shooting fist size groups all day rapid fire M4 at 50 feet. Quite impressive. He stopped by and asked me what the F I was shooting since I had pretty much cut a 4x4 sheet of cardboard in half with a few mags of slugs and 00 buck. He stopped shooting and came over. I let him dump an 8 rounder of buck and he had a shit eating grin ear to ear. Had me write down the name Saiga-12 and was out on a search for one as he left I believe. I warned him they were hard to come by and he said he had "connections" for anything. I bet I run into him later with a 12C one day. He was pretty amazed that there were basically 7 shells still in the air before the last round went off. Edited February 17, 2007 by twinhairdryers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 (edited) After reading the above posts, I have a question concerning Izhmash Saiga factory mags for the 20 guage. Immediately below is a photo I just took of the top of a 5 round mag (the shell feeder and spring removed). I've circled in red the squared-off portions of the factory-made metal feed lip that after reading your posts, I find myself concerned with. Would it be best if I rounded-off the corners of the feed lip so that their edges curve similar to what Azkamidaka has explained and depicted by way of photos??? If I keep my Saiga-20 mags as they currently are, should I expect a few potential FTFs? I have on order with Dinzag wedged angle ramps for all my magazines' shell feeder/pusher, so as to facilitate smooth feeding for 2 3/4" shells from a 3" mag... but after reading all the above I'd like recommendations from those that "know." FYI: I have not yet received my TROMIX Saiga-20 (it's on order) but have acquired all the other necessary accessories for the gun. Having never fired one of these puppies, I am clueless regarding typical problems and apparently (at least with regards to the Saiga-12 AGP mags) the metal feeder lip is often an issue that requires simple modification. So again, I'd be indebted for any advice from you owners of the Saiga-20 regarding necessary modifications to the 20ga mags' feeder lip? THANKS IN ADVANCE!!! ~Gary Edited February 18, 2007 by Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 I wouldnt modify anything until you try the mags in the gun. They may work properly as is and may not work if modified. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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