Messiah Jones 2 Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 I've done 12+ Saiga conversion on all different calibers and thought I could help someone out by doing theirs. I recently made a deal with a guy to do his Saiga 12ga after the ban expires. That got me to thinking that if it'll help people I can do this on the side. The deal went like this... - $80.00 for the conversions (Pistol grip + high cap mag conversions + refinishing) - $30.00 for filling the trigger pin holes and refinishing (optional) - Parts supplied by owner. - Shipping paid by the owner both ways. The owner would send me the rifle/shotgun minus the buttstock, top cover, bolt carrier and gas piston, bolt and recoil spring. I will do the work and email pictures of the completed project showing the serial numbers. Then the owner pays for the conversions plus shipping back to them. I can do about one per day, but a week should be allowed for surprises. Like nights when she won't let me play in the garage etc. Anyway, let me know if you think it's a good idea. I know there are others around here who could do the same thing. I'm surprised nobody has yet. It sure beats paying hundreds to a place like Krebs, although they do excellent work. Fairly soon I'll be able to do more things like removing the front sight and gas block, and replacing them with other types. I know a lot of people will be wanting to put threaded front sight blocks with brakes on their Saigas after the ban expires. Link to post Share on other sites
emclean 0 Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 do you have a FFL? Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 If you do have an FFL, perhaps you'd be interested in doing professional 308 mag adaptor installations too... Link to post Share on other sites
fowlplay 0 Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 I would be up for it. How much would the parts cost. Give me a rough price with all the parts and that stuff included. Link to post Share on other sites
Messiah Jones 2 Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 I don't have a FFL. Do I need one? I thought that since ownership wasn't being transfered, and the owner is basically just having work done, that it would be legal. I hope I'm right. Fowlplay, I've been able to do everything for as low as $80.00 for all the parts. Depending on which caliber you're working on and where you buy the parts. So I'd say between $80.00 and $120.00 for the parts. I can do the PG conversion on any Saiga (shotguns after the ban expires of course), and the high cap mag conversion on the 7.62X39 and .223 models. I'm working on the 12ga and .308 mag conversions but don't have it licked yet. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing these until it is perfected. The other calibers are so easy that there's nothing to worry about as far as function. So, PG can be done to anything, and mags to the 7.62X39 and .223 models. Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 You cannot legally perform work on guns for money without an FFL. DEFINITELY cannot take shipment of them. Farthest I'd ever consider going is accepting dinner from friends after doing one together. Or possibly accepting an overpayment/finders fee for parts necessary for said conversion. But NEVER on a regular basis and NEVER having them shipped. Darnet, MJ, you had me hoping. Link to post Share on other sites
Messiah Jones 2 Posted August 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Well that sux. Are you sure about this? In my state it is legal to buy a rifle from someone without any paperwork. Could I at least do it for people in my own state? Ahh, who am I kidding? You're probably right. So, when are we having dinner? We have some things to talk about. Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 (edited) It's legal in my state too to transfer a pre-owned longarm between individuals without instacheck. But if you do it as a business somehow, you need an FFL. Buy too many guns in too short a time and you get noticed. Like on Gunsnet, a guy was talking about a guy who bought ten AK receivers at once for home builds. BATF contacted his dealer and checked on a few things. I don't believe anything came of it, as I suspect they confirmed that he only got them for personal use. As I said, I'd only do it WITH friends, but not regularly, and not accepting much more than a thank you. It's a fuzzy line to draw, and that's where I draw it. Thst's one reason I'm offering my G3 magazine conversion as a do-it-yourself kit, so that I don't have to go through the FFL process. Now here's an idea that I thought of myself... If you could make a mutually beneficial arrangement with an FFL holder, you could work within their business and their license. I considered approaching a local dealer about the prospect, where they'd buy Saigas and parts at wholesale cost, I'd convert them, and they'd mark them up and give me a commission. Summer's gone though and my last year of school is right around the corner. If all goes well, I'll have a short run of mag adapters to send out. Hopefully I'll have time on weekends and breaks to make a few more. I'm estimating that the people comfortable doing the work and modifications involved will not be incredibly many. I was kind of hoping if you had connection to an FFL you could get familiar with my mag conversion and offer installation services. I can just see it now... "Will convert Saigas for food" Edited August 17, 2004 by BattleRifleG3 Link to post Share on other sites
emclean 0 Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 I don't have a FFL. Do I need one?you would need one for the recever to be shiped to you, you can work on a gun with out one. the only problem is in mailing a gun around. You cannot legally perform work on guns for money without an FFL. what law? can you back this up with a link? Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 (edited) Sorry I cannot find a link to a law, but this is what I have read everywhere else. When I say work on guns, I mean if the receiver is included. You can send away everything else and work on it without an FFL. That actually poses an interesting question... what if a person did not have a place of business, rather made house calls? Edited August 18, 2004 by BattleRifleG3 Link to post Share on other sites
fowlplay 0 Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Hey there, When I sent my Saiga to Colonial Arms to work on my barrel, The post office told me that a complete gun cannot be shipped. However, parts of a gun can. I removed the buttstock, piston, spring, bolt, ect. and shipped the rest of the dissassambled gun with no problem. Plus with more parts removed, the cheaper the shipping. I will admitt that Colonial Arms did have a FFL (of course) however, working on a firearm without a FFL should not be a problem. I would contact a gunsmith in your area to clear up the matter. Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 And the Gunsmith will show you his FFL. Link to post Share on other sites
emclean 0 Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 And the Gunsmith will show you his FFL.i have yet to see a gunsmith who was a store, and dose not sell guns. the FFL is needed for the sale of guns (depending on the state you cant sell unless going through a FFL). there is no law stoping you from doing work on some ones gun, just like you could work on someones car, but you are buying and selling guns for what the ATF consiters a buiness then you can get busted. Sorry I cannot find a link to a law, but this is what I have read everywhere else. i know how that goes, that is why i ask for links, the laws are badly writen and i like to see what they say. Link to post Share on other sites
fowlplay 0 Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 I am sure that a gunsmith would have a FFL. However, would a person working on parts of guns need the FFL? They are not being sent guns, just the parts. So a FFL would not be needed to work on gun parts. I do not believe that it is necessary for a private party to possess a FFL to alter gun parts. If this were true, it would be against the law for me to modify my own weapon. A legal modification of course..... Link to post Share on other sites
emclean 0 Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 So a FFL would not be needed to work on gun parts you are correct, the FFL is only to receve the reciver. you can modifie your gund as much as the law allows, you can do the same for your frends guns, and for others for money. hell, you can eavon amke your own guns (you just cant ever sell them). Link to post Share on other sites
TapperMan 0 Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 You definitely need a FFL. From the BATFE: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#i1 I. GUNSMITHS (I1) Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? [back] Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer. [27 CFR 178.11] (I2) Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent "bound book" record every firearm received for adjustment or repair? [back] If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the "bound book" as an "acquisition." If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an "acquisition" and a "disposition" in the permanent "bound book" record. [27 CFR 178.125( e)] (I3) Is ATF Form 4473 required when a gunsmith returns a repaired firearm? [back] No, provided the firearm is returned to the person from whom received. [27 CFR 178.124( a)] (I4) May a gunsmith make immediate repairs at locations other than his or her place of business? [back] Yes. (I5) May a licensed gunsmith receive an NFA firearm for purposes of repair? [back] Yes, for the sole purpose of repair and subsequent return to its owner. It is suggested that the owner obtain permission from ATF for the transfer by completing and mailing ATF Form 5 to the NFA Branch and receive approval prior to the delivery. The gunsmith should do the same prior to returning the firearm. Only the face of the form need be completed in each instance. ATF Forms 5 may be obtained from the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch, Washington, DC 20226, (202) 927-8330. (I6) Is a licensed gunsmith required to comply with the requirements to give written notification to handgun transferees and post signs on juvenile handgun possession? [back] The requirement that written notification on juvenile handgun possession be given to a nonlicensee to whom a handgun is delivered applies to all Federal firearms licensees. It also applies to the return of handguns to their owners, as well as to their sale. Thus, a gunsmith who repairs or customizes a nonlicensee's handgun must provide the notification to the nonlicensee when the handgun is returned. The sign posting requirement also applies to gunsmiths, unless the gunsmith only disposes of handguns to nonlicensees who do not appear at the gunsmith's licensed premises, for example, when repaired handguns are shipped to nonlicensees. [18 U. S. C. 922( x), 27 CFR 178.103] (I7) Is a licensed gunsmith's return of repaired or customized firearms to their owners subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees? [back] No, but it is unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms. (See also Question P25.) [18 U. S. C. 922( d), 27 CFR 178.32( d)] Link to post Share on other sites
Messiah Jones 2 Posted August 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Thst's one reason I'm offering my G3 magazine conversion as a do-it-yourself kit, so that I don't have to go through the FFL process. Absolutely get one of these to me. Before you run out of em please sell me one. I want to be at the top of the list! Link to post Share on other sites
fowlplay 0 Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 I stand corrected! Link to post Share on other sites
emclean 0 Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 TapperMan, thank you, i di dnot know this. so it appers that you can work on guns as long as it ani't a business. QUOTE So a FFL would not be needed to work on gun parts you are correct, the FFL is only to receve the reciver. you can modifie your gund as much as the law allows, you can do the same for your frends guns, and for others for money. hell, you can eavon amke your own guns (you just cant ever sell them). so strike the "for others for money" Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 (edited) Hence the gray area, where I will accept hospitality and parts commission, but not on work and only with friends, not for them. A friend of mine came over and brought an old gun of his father's that had broken years earlier. We tinkered with it, read as much as we could on it, and repaired the problem. There's no problem there. Some day he wants to build an AR-15, and since I built one for myself, he plans to involve me. On the other hand, another friend heard that I built an AR-15 and asked what I'd charge to build one for him. No can do there. Edited August 19, 2004 by BattleRifleG3 Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Messiah: That was still a good idea, I know I'd like to have someone experienced doing the conversion for me....I'm a little weary about messing with parts that work fine already! I may be assisting my friend though soon with his saiga 7.62x39 conversion with the help of Sheik's website! Link to post Share on other sites
Messiah Jones 2 Posted September 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 I may be assisting my friend though soon with his saiga 7.62x39 conversion with the help of Sheik's website! Dont forget about my Saiga Conversion CD! That Sheik is a nice guy with a great website, and can surely help you. But if you want to see a ton of movies and other info along with the Saiga conversion stuff then check out my description in the "For Sale" area. Link to post Share on other sites
prophageus 0 Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 You have a cd with movies on conversion?? What's the link or the name of the title on the board? Link to post Share on other sites
Messiah Jones 2 Posted September 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 You have a cd with movies on conversion?? What's the link or the name of the title on the board? Not movies of the conversion, but action movies of shooting and exploding targets etc. The conversion info is in step-by-step color pics. I sold hundreds of them on eBay until they banned me with 100% positive feedback... so I guess theyre alright. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts