rocinante 100 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 I want to get a saiga 12 more for home defense and just got to have cool factor. the 19 inches seem to be in shorter supply and honestly 5 inches is not that much of a difference is it? I was reading on the rifle forums the pro/cons of barrel length and was surprised that shorter does not necessarily mean less accurate. These are scatter guns so I wonder how length affects performance. Less kick? Opinion needed. These are in short supply. If I see a 19 inch for 400 should I buy it now or can I wait and the price will stay reasonable? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 If you can find a 19" threaded model (IZ-109) right now, buy it. They are priced about the same as the 108 I think. The 108 comes with a 19" threaded bbl too but has no BHO. I would settle for one of those right now since you can get a BHO from our member Jeric on the forum. There used to be a 22" model available thru the old importer. What happened to those? I have one in factory camo that I love and it's a great shooter, a little longer but not too long. Last I checked the 24"models were more expensive than the 19's. I can't understand that one. Are those threaded for chokes? If not you can test to see if it's full choke by trying to insert a dime in the muzzle, if it won't fit, it's full. I know the 22" guns were not threaded and only came with a fixed full choke. Great for turkey shoots or bird hunts but you have to be careful shooting slugs. They are fine with foster slugs but the lead fouls the choke in the barrel. You DEFINATELY don't want to put the harder sabot slugs thru a full choke. The longer barrels are not really all that much more accurate if at all. They do develop more muzzle velocity so you may get better range though. I've got no experience with the 24's (dammit guess I need another S-12! :-() but my biggest issue before between the 22" and 19" was the ability to use different chokes and muzzle devices on the threaded 19's. On the old guns some 19's were not threaded, not sure about the new ones. So if you can get 24" ones that are threaded it's a matter of preference I guess. If the extra length doesn't bother you then you will have more power and still be able to put groovy FHs, brakes, and other muzzle devices on there. To me 24" or even 22" is just a little long for a "home defense" gun that you may need to swing around in close quarters. I'm happy with 19" and see no need for shorter than that. The old 19" threaded guns were called the "Defender" model. How's that for Kewl factor right off the bat! Like I said though just about any S-12 you can get your hands on right now is a good bet. Just be wary of the shorter ones floating around out there with welded on Mod Cyl chokes. These are an abomination. The first order of S-12s that made it in after the long dry spell were screw ups at the factory or RAA (not sure which) and made it past customs, ATF inspectors, the importer, and even the distributors before it was discovered that they had 17.5" barrels Can you say illegal SBS? I believe it was Tony Rumore who busted em on it. They were ALL recalled and had to be "fixed" so they decided to cover their asses by welding on those choke tubes to get them up to minimum legal length. A friend just emailed me last night saying he had come across one of these in a shop and wanted my opinion on whether or not he should buy it. One advantage (to me at least) was it had the rib style sights. I'm not sure if they are importing or even making those anymore. No BHO but that is easily fixed. I told him if it were me I would jump on it if he could do without custom brakes and hiders because now you can get a polychoke that screws on regular factory threads so you could have the welds cut by a licensed smith and get a poly silver soldered on and still have full mobility as far as chokes go anyway. Good luck and rest assured you will be happy as hell with ANY S-12 you decide to get if it's your first one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocinante 100 Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 What is BHO? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 What is BHO? Bolt Hold Open. It's a little tab that sticks down beside the trigger guard for you to hit your finger on when you shoot. No seriously, it's a manual bolt hold-open. Most useful if you're at a range that requires all bolts be open during cease-fires. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocinante 100 Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 can you guys tell from this picture if this is probably a 109 with the threaded barrel and BHO? http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=66411818 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 No that appears to be an older model 19" with no BHO and no barrel threads. See the rounded tab sticking out of my receiver just behind the trigger? That is the BHO lever. I grind all mine down round like that so it doesn't hurt my trigger finger to operate it. If you push up on that while firing it will catch the bolt carrier and hold it back. If you count your shots you can do this on the last one and make your mag change much easier. It's easy to spot a threaded barrel by looking for the thread protector. It will be slightly larger diameter than the barrel at the end and have a square appearance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 lol Cobra, I have one of those abominations. One of these days ill get Tony to fix her up with my shark brake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 The last batch of IZ-108's that I received all have the BHO, 19" threaded barrel, and vent rib sight. The IZ-109's have been the same except for having rifle sights. Ealier guns of both models were not all like that. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocinante 100 Posted March 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I asked and this is his response. Not very confidence inspiring but he does say they are the most recent batch. I went ahead and bought it. Not that happy he gave me such a don't know anything retard answer but nobody seems to have them in stock and his price and shipping is reasonable. 418 shipped be good. I haven't got it yet and already have the bug to customize it to look more gnarly. > > I am going to buy that sucker but I want to know for sure > > > > it has the 19 inch threaded barrel > > > > the BHO, bolt hold open > > > > and is model IZ-109. > > > > just say yes, yes, yes and I will buy it. I never seen one with a bolt hold open. I know they have 19 barrels with a muzzle nut on them. these are brand new guns in factory sealer packages so I don't open them. Most recent batch to arrive from russia Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 No real advantage to a longer barrel on the Saiga-12. You only gain about 7 fps per inch of barrel. Unless you put a front sight on the end of the barrel you still have the same sight radious. I have the 19in and it patterns ok without a choke tube. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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