southerncross 0 Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 all ive shot out of my .410 so far is cheap winchester target/light game load shot shells. i noticed a few of you talking about rifled barrels and shooting deer with your .410s, and i was just wondering whats the best course for me to take so that i can use my .410 for deer hunting this year. right now all i have is the thread protector on my gun with one of dinzag's ak-74 style brakes. im not sure which would be better: buck shot or slug? i know for the slug to be accurate i need one of those paradox extended chokes, but i dont have a clue where to look for one. all i ever see for sale anywhere is thread protectors and modifieds. anybody with experiece on this or suggestions feel free to chime in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bugeye 2 Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 You dont need a paradox choke to hunt, your Saiga will shoot straight enough as is. Use a 3 in rifled slug. Aim for where the neck meets the body & shoot ......... and its bye bye Bambi. You hardest part will be to blank off the mag so it only hold two rounds. Two in the mag & one in the chamber is all most states will allow. Cobra sold me a wire that limits the mag to two rounds but I have not used it yet. You got some time before deer season come around, happy hunting! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 Yeah, Haven't seen too many kinds of 76mm rifled slugs, much less saboted ones. I don't even know if you can get saboted slugs for the 410. If they are out there or anyone knows of any, let me know. I do have a paradox, but am looking at handloading 95gr 380acp pistol bullets into a shot-cup (sabot). The breneke 76mm rifled slugs are the way to go for deer. Around here they are $1 apiece. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
warthog 1 Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 I've loaded my own sabot slugs for the .410 but I don't think I've ever seen commercial ones. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bugeye 2 Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 OK, on the left are Winchester 410 hollow point rifled slugs. Available wherever fine toys are sold. About ninty cents a pop. The best for deer hunting with a 410. The slugs have a spiral groove cut into them so they spin as they go up the barrel to make them more accurate, much like a rifle barrel spins a bullet. On the right are Silver Bear Russian ammo. They are marked 97 grain sabot slugs. I dont even know what a sabot slug is. The BEST for shooting with the Sagia. Available from the Sportsman Guide for ~$19 for 50. Please dont tell anyone, they already sell out enough as it is! Next shipment is due in April 21, I have 150 on back order. The best part of shooting the Silver Bear slugs (apart from the cost) is the look on everybodys face when they see those big ass shells being tossed accross the range from my saiga. I mean you can see the "look" from everybody. Great way to make friends! They are available in 5 ball buckshot as Golden Bear ammo as well. Both are the bomb baby, but like I said you got to keep this quiet.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
will36 0 Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 all ive shot out of my .410 so far is cheap winchester target/light game load shot shells. i noticed a few of you talking about rifled barrels and shooting deer with your .410s, and i was just wondering whats the best course for me to take so that i can use my .410 for deer hunting this year. right now all i have is the thread protector on my gun with one of dinzag's ak-74 style brakes. im not sure which would be better: buck shot or slug? i know for the slug to be accurate i need one of those paradox extended chokes, but i dont have a clue where to look for one. all i ever see for sale anywhere is thread protectors and modifieds. anybody with experiece on this or suggestions feel free to chime in. I have 5 kids. 4boys and a baby girl. They have all killed a deer with a 410 all with slugs. One was about 65 steps . They were not saigas . but the 410 slug is a deer killer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 OK, on the left are Winchester 410 hollow point rifled slugs. Available wherever fine toys are sold. About ninty cents a pop. The best for deer hunting with a 410. The slugs have a spiral groove cut into them so they spin as they go up the barrel to make them more accurate, much like a rifle barrel spins a bullet. On the right are Silver Bear Russian ammo. They are marked 97 grain sabot slugs. I dont even know what a sabot slug is. The BEST for shooting with the Sagia. Available from the Sportsman Guide for ~$19 for 50. Please dont tell anyone, they already sell out enough as it is! Next shipment is due in April 21, I have 150 on back order. The best part of shooting the Silver Bear slugs (apart from the cost) is the look on everybodys face when they see those big ass shells being tossed accross the range from my saiga. I mean you can see the "look" from everybody. Great way to make friends! They are available in 5 ball buckshot as Golden Bear ammo as well. Both are the bomb baby, but like I said you got to keep this quiet.... Oh crap, forgot about those! Thanks man - got a reason to dust off the paradox. I bought some Barnauls back in the day when I got my first S-410. Had some issues with jams, so went to plastic. I bet those were sabots as well... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter78 1 Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 I personally would not use a 410 for deer. accurate enough but its not that high powered, but it is capable at reasonable ranges and with good shot placement. just be sure that you can use a 410 in your state. In Wisconsin it is illegal. Also I would not use buckshot for deer. You do not have enough pellets. if any get deflected by brush your down to just a few. Now consider spread, How many will hit vitals. Again less energy of the 410. Will they get deflected by ribs? Multiply these problems if you push the range. I don't especially like the idea of using 12ga buckshot on deer, much less the 410. Save it for the best use as a man stopper in self defence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
will36 0 Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 I personally would not use a 410 for deer. accurate enough but its not that high powered, but it is capable at reasonable ranges and with good shot placement. just be sure that you can use a 410 in your state. In Wisconsin it is illegal. Also I would not use buckshot for deer. You do not have enough pellets. if any get deflected by brush your down to just a few. Now consider spread, How many will hit vitals. Again less energy of the 410. Will they get deflected by ribs? Multiply these problems if you push the range. I don't especially like the idea of using 12ga buckshot on deer, much less the 410. Save it for the best use as a man stopper in self defence. A 410 slug will drop them in there tracks if you dont gut shoot them or try to air it out 75 or 80 yards. Its a good "in the woods" round. many big deer where you are? Dont get much over 150 or 200lbs here. Just too many deer . This county had a 5000+ deer harvest this year and didnt put a dent in them. we did our part Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bugeye 2 Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 What the heck is a sabot slug anyway??? All I know is my 410 loves the Silver Bears. Hell she loves everything, so far everything has been shot on setting 1, no failures to feed or eject yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 What the heck is a sabot slug anyway??? See pic... Sabot slugs are designed to be fired from a rifled barrel (or barrel with a rifled choke). Sabots are simply a break-away casing that engages the rifling and causes the bullet to spin. No rifling, they will not spin. Rifled slugs have rifling on them designed to be shot from a smooth bore barrel. The slug directly contacts the bore and spins on it's own. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bugeye 2 Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 OK thanks for the info Dinzaq. A photo is worth a 1,000 words! So without the paradox I am just pushing lead through the air, no aerodynamics at play. At 25 yards I am not noticing any difference in accuracy between the rifled slugs and the Silver Bear's. But now you make me want to get a paradox choke! Any good leads to look for one?? I said it once before, the best part of the Silver Bears is watching the casings go flying as I shoot. They are impressive! The Golden Bears too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter78 1 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 A 410 slug will drop them in there tracks if you dont gut shoot them or try to air it out 75 or 80 yards. Its a good "in the woods" round. many big deer where you are? Dont get much over 150 or 200lbs here. Just too many deer . This county had a 5000+ deer harvest this year and didnt put a dent in them. we did our part A well placed .22 will to, but my main concern is that people push shots that they shouldn't take, If a 410 is all you have then ok, but with a rifled barrel and scope with sabots in a 12 gauge you can take deer out to 200 yards. My area is shotgun only so that is what I generally hunt with when at home. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 I dumped a 4 pt back when I was 18 with a 410. No exit, but took out the shoulder & heart. More than effective IMHO. That was at 50 yards & dropped him in his tracks. My cousin shot her first deer with one as well. A good heart, lung or neck shot will put 'em down from a 410. Saw a local program - Michigan Outdoors - where a lady shot at a nice 10 point 6 times with a 410 at 100 yards. Finally the 7th shot she hit him and dropped him. He didn't even pick his head up while she was shooting - lol. All caught on video. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
will36 0 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 A 410 slug will drop them in there tracks if you dont gut shoot them or try to air it out 75 or 80 yards. Its a good "in the woods" round. many big deer where you are? Dont get much over 150 or 200lbs here. Just too many deer . This county had a 5000+ deer harvest this year and didnt put a dent in them. we did our part A well placed .22 will to, but my main concern is that people push shots that they shouldn't take, If a 410 is all you have then ok, but with a rifled barrel and scope with sabots in a 12 gauge you can take deer out to 200 yards. My area is shotgun only so that is what I generally hunt with when at home. Yeah a 22 will also do it I hunt with my 223 AK. I rabbit and squirell with a suppressed 10/22 . I can get a limit pretty quick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Yeah a 22 will also do it I hunt with my 223 AK. I rabbit and squirell with a suppressed 10/22 . I can get a limit pretty quick. By the looks of your avatar, do you mean 22mm? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aethelbert 1 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 I dumped a 4 pt back when I was 18 with a 410. No exit, but took out the shoulder & heart. More than effective IMHO. That was at 50 yards & dropped him in his tracks. My cousin shot her first deer with one as well. A good heart, lung or neck shot will put 'em down from a 410. Saw a local program - Michigan Outdoors - where a lady shot at a nice 10 point 6 times with a 410 at 100 yards. Finally the 7th shot she hit him and dropped him. He didn't even pick his head up while she was shooting - lol. All caught on video. Dare I ask what the crap kinda .410 she was shooting that it was able to hold 7 rounds? Or was she using a Saiga with the all-too-hard- get (and spendy) 10-rd mag? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aethelbert 1 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 (edited) What the heck is a sabot slug anyway??? See pic... Sabot slugs are designed to be fired from a rifled barrel (or barrel with a rifled choke). Sabots are simply a break-away casing that engages the rifling and causes the bullet to spin. No rifling, they will not spin. Rifled slugs have rifling on them designed to be shot from a smooth bore barrel. The slug directly contacts the bore and spins on it's own. First saw sabot slugs back in the '80s when 12 ga sabots were released as a police ammo to be able to shatter through brick barriers (said back then to damage brick walls as badly as a 20 mm non-explosive projectile) and were said to be capable of 4" groups at 100 yards -- from a smooth-bored barrel. The Russians have long produced sabot slugs in .410 to be used in a smooth-bored shotgun like the Saiga which, to the best of my knowledge, is not available from the factory with a rifled barrel. Our own Cobra has used a Paradox choke but wasn't overly impressed with the accuracy (IIRC). The type of rifled slug shown appears to be a Foster slug. Generally speaking, the grooves impressed upon the slug are considered too shallow to act effectively enough to cause spin or rotation. Better than the much older round or 'punkin' ball loads. BTW, where'd you get the illustration? It's good and reminds me of the type of publicity illustrations used back in the 80's to push sales of the then-new sabot 12 ga. Edited April 9, 2007 by Aethelbert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 I dumped a 4 pt back when I was 18 with a 410. No exit, but took out the shoulder & heart. More than effective IMHO. That was at 50 yards & dropped him in his tracks. My cousin shot her first deer with one as well. A good heart, lung or neck shot will put 'em down from a 410. Saw a local program - Michigan Outdoors - where a lady shot at a nice 10 point 6 times with a 410 at 100 yards. Finally the 7th shot she hit him and dropped him. He didn't even pick his head up while she was shooting - lol. All caught on video. Dare I ask what the crap kinda .410 she was shooting that it was able to hold 7 rounds? Or was she using a Saiga with the all-too-hard- get (and spendy) 10-rd mag? Looked like a 3 shot winchester pump. She had to reload several times - lol. Yeah the pic was on some old dated looking site - I thought the same as well. All the Saiga shotties shown in the factory catalog have options for rifled barrel extensions (paradox) - even the 20's... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bugeye 2 Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 To heck with the paradox, I am keeping my Dinzaq muzzel brake! Now if Tony ever gets a tap for the 410 barrel and makes us some Shark brakes from his rifle invintory, then I would do the old switch-a-roo. I have even been dreaming with photoshop.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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