Gandalf 0 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 On Saturday I was invited to help with the Varsity Boy Scouts and their rifle merit badge. One Scout Master brought his AR15 and I brought my Saiga .223. Each boy was carefully taught the basics (safety rules, proper technique, etc.) and allowed to fire three groups of three shots from each rifle. Between each three shot group the scouts got to go see how they were shooting and what they needed to do to do better. I'll admit that during the practice shooting, I was feeling a little ashamed. The AR was getting much better groups than the Saiga. Some boys couldn't even hit paper with the Saiga. Then came the competition. Each person, 4 boys and 3 adults, was given five shots with each firearm. I could hardly believe the results. The highest score from the boys came from the Saiga! I thought maybe it was a stroke of luck. After that the adults had their turn. I was sure that the scout master with the AR was going to win. Especially since he just finished his time in the Army. Well, once again the Saiga pulled through. My AR score tied his, and my Saiga score was even better than the AR score! So in the end, the Saiga scored the highest points both for the boys and the men. In all fairness, the AR usually had much better groupings. The Saiga was just more consistant about hitting the bullseye. On the way home, Aaron (the AR15 owner) was talking about the Scout activity and after commenting on how much he likes his AR, admitted that he was very impressed with the Saiga. I am one very happy Saiga owner. Oh, and another reason to be proud of the Saiga. Both rifles were dirty from use before the Varsity Scout activity. The AR jammed several times, and one time jammed so bad that it took over 5 minutes to pry the bullet out. The Saiga jammed twice from the magazine not being properly inserted, but it never took more than a few seconds to clear it and continue shooting. Gotta love that AK reliability. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 right on gandalf. thats part of growing up is shooting, and Im glad to see others teaching the kids out there that fact of life. I bet the higher scores were partly due to the open iron sights as opposed to the AR's peep sight. a peep is a pain in the butt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gandalf 0 Posted September 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 right on gandalf. thats part of growing up is shooting, and Im glad to see others teaching the kids out there that fact of life. I bet the higher scores were partly due to the open iron sights as opposed to the AR's peep sight. a peep is a pain in the butt. Thanks Bvamp. My eyesight isn't the greatest and it was a strain to use the peep sights. It would take my eyes several seconds to focus through the sights, and then several seconds more for them to adjust back to normal once I finished shooting. The Saiga sights are somewhat crude, but much more forgiving on the eyes. Oh, here's an irony from the shooting experience. No boys were hurt in any way from the AR or the AK rifles (of course we had an adult sitting right by each boy, supervising him as he used the rifles), but we did have one injury...from a deer rifle! The third adult brought his .270. One of the boys, having become accustomed to the light recoil of the AR and Saiga, tried the .270. He was totally caught off guard by the recoil even though we warned him. The scope bumped his forehead and gave him a little cut above his eyebrow. Don't worry, I saw his mom that evening, and she said he came home excited about his experience. He apparently was proud of his little "battle scar". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 (edited) heheh awesome gandalf! keep up the good work with those kids. get more of the adults to go too. shooting with your kid is one of the most memorable moments you can have, right up there next to fishing and hunting. by the way, the thing with the peep sight on the AR is it is really fast to put a round into a chest-sized target...I dont know about that particular peep with smaller targets. I tend to tack-drive with my AR, but every time I pull the trigger, I feel like i should second guess my aim. and if you do that, your group size doubles. Edited September 15, 2004 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siagalova 0 Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 That is why the army loves that site huh! i noticed even the M1 garand has them, so does the mini 14. Seems the choice for our forces. I figure if you get used to them - they're probably alright to use. I take different kids all the time, other than my own! the boys love it!! they get so amped. It's hard sometimes to keep them focussed, because nothing happens until the whole ritual is done........i hand them the gun, have them check the chamber, we put in the clip (while I stand next to and behind, most of the kids are 12 and under), they de-safety, look to each side making sure everyone is behind them, slam the bolt back (like an army man in the movies), and go! God they won't shut up the whole way back! it's great! I take the BB gun too, the same ritual applies! my 7 year old can take cans and bottles at 30-50 yards. time to move on to the ruger 10/22! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 yehp, short range quick target pickups, and very long range accuracy all in the same hard to learn sight how old were your guy's kids when you first took them shooting? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siagalova 0 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 mine was five - I basically took him at first to show him that the gun wasn't a toy! that first shot - HE NEW! I also showed him the whole mater melon thing. I thought it VERY important if I was going to have it in the house. RESPECT is a big issue in our house (being us boys only and all). he started shooting his dart guns and various projectile toy guns with really good accuracy, when I showed him how to line them up - if they had sites all the better! at the range we kept running into guys with rugers 10/22's and he started plinkin' cans and whatnot, when proped on a chair. Of course the guys would all cheer when he figured out the rapid fire technique! big o'l smile on his face! great stuff! I got him the bb gun - to see how his general carefulness, and demeaner was, about a year ago. at first he was hittin' the mark with the shoulder stock under his arm! I mean every father wants to brag, but I didn't expect him to hit anything! It fits him now, not well, but he can shoot it right! christmas I'll break down and get a synthetic/scope combo, they get pretty cheap around then $130 i think! I also think it's an important survival type gun, small game and all! He'll think it's for him!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 so me taking my daughter out to shoot everything in my arsenal at age ten wasnt a bad fatherly thing? hehhehHEH. (you shoudla seen her with the 380 and 40...was pissing me off that she was shooting them better than me that day LOL) know what ?even if it was? *I* think it was a good idea. you shoulda seen her with the saiga12. she wants to hunt with her great grandpa now back home. the issue was if she could handle a firearm, not the killing or the gutting part if you can believe that one. Ill have to give the go-ahead to her mom next year I think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siagalova 0 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 That's kinda the thing, if it's your kid you do what you want! end of story. think of it, we all shot guns at younger ages AND it was acceptable and nothin'! if you lived on a farm - even more so! my parents were serious city folk, but when in the context of hunting or sport, target shooting, guns were not fopau'. everyone used to not be soooo (insert word here: paranoid, uptight, uninformed), remember it was no big deal! here's the other thing - I wouldn't just take ANY kid out messin' around with us either! people are so sensitive, it's hard to say whether they'd be cool or not (it sounds like obvious advice right?). The neighbor kids came over the other day - just bustin through with my kid - and the rifle was out being cleaned or messed with or something. I immediatly, brought them all together, and really seriously told them all this wasn't a toy. After I "secured the firearm"(doesn't that sound official) then lit a smoke and went to the neaighbors, and just told them plainly "hey look, the kids came while..........so if there's any mention, that's what was seen." And got a pretty bewildered "O.K" and just walked off! she let'm come back so she must be cool! it's my right, even if it wasn't cool, it'd be a double win - 'casue the noisy little buggers would all have to go over there to play! that's how we do it on the west side, gee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted September 18, 2004 Report Share Posted September 18, 2004 Started my kids with a marlin 60 when they were 6! Safty is best learned early! Now kids are grown, but I took 2 sons and a son in law shooting one day, and could hardly pry s-12 away from them long enough for ME to have a turn! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jesusplayedwithwood 0 Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 I don't have any kids yet, but I think I was being brought out to shoot between the ages of 5-7. My dad is ex-military and shot competitively in ROTC and such (also a range instructor for a while). I couldn't be happier for the young shooting experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smithy5160 0 Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 yea im in army rotc and i always had to go to my friends house to shoot since my parents dont like guns but now i buy what i want and i love my saiga 308 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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