Preparing to convert

[budney 0]

Hello!

 

This didn't take long. My Saiga 7.62x39 hasn't even arrived yet, and I'm salivating to convert it. I've read the howto, and searched this forum for guidance, and put together a tentative parts list, using Froogle.com to find the cheapest prices:

 

(EDIT: Keeping the shopping list up-to-date as the thread progresses)

 

1) From Gun & Holster: Tapco Galil-style handguard for Saiga, and retaining plate. Cost: $63.78 plus shipping.

 

2) From JSE Surplus: Galil-style folding stock, SAW-style pistol grip, and Tapco single-hook trigger group. Price: $74.00 plus shipping.

 

3) EDIT: tentatively, I propose to ditch the grip screw and nut, and use the recommended carriage bolt, washer and 1/2" nut instead.

 

I think that's all I need to convert my new not-even-received-yet Saiga into an Izhmash AK (47? 74? not sure...). The total price would be $147.25 plus shipping (Edit: the current price is $137.78 plus shipping). In addition,

 

4) [DELETED]

 

5) I'm wondering if I should also install a new gas piston and pin it for added realism. If so, I can't tell what's the right one to get: some say the 6.25" standard AK piston will work as-is; others say to cut it; still others say that the AK74 piston is exactly right (but I can't seem to find one online).

 

Have I covered all the bases here? Are there any hints or suggestions? Hopefully, at the very least, gathering the above links together will be helpful--I haven't seen a simple list of what-to-buy, or even better a complete conversion kit. Since the Saiga came to $319.89 including tax, transfer, etc., the total would be $467.14. Could I have gotten a better AK bargain (price, quality, etc) without going the conversion route? If so, what should I have gotten instead?

 

Thanks!

Len.

Edited July 4, 2007 by Leonard Budney

[Navy87Guy 1]

It looks like you've got everything you need.

 

Check out JSE Surplus - they have better prices on the furniture - $75 plus S/H. They also have the best price on the TAPCO G2 trigger group I've seen - $27. I've ordered several things from them and their service was excellent. (Whileyou're at it, if you want to add the rail system to your handguard, they have it for $9 -- usually it runs aroun $14).

 

As far as gas piston, you need a 6 inch piston - the standard AK piston is 6.25" and will need to be turned down to fit. You can order an AK 74 piston or you can also get a custom made piston over www.gunco.net from Hot Barrel. He charges $15 delivered with about a week turn around from when he gets your order. You'll see on the site that he has very solid reviews. All that said, there's no need to replace the gas piston -- how much more "realistic" can you get than the one from Ishmash? The only reason to do it would be for 922R compliance reasons (like me). But you have more than enough compliance parts planned.

 

Jim

[devildog1122 0]

I don't know if that handguard come with the lower retainer, if not, tapco sell one with it for $58.

[Navy87Guy 1]

I don't know if that handguard come with the lower retainer, if not, tapco sell one with it for $58.

 

Doh!

 

Devildog is 100% right. The Saiga doesn't have a retainer like standard AK's. There are three options:

1) Dinzag sells a no-gunsmithing, bolt-on retainer

2) You can press off your front sight block and gas block and install a retainer (lots of work)

3) Buy the TAPCO Galil-style handguard for the Saiga that includes the bolt-on retainer.

 

The cheapest and easiest option is to get the Saiga-specific version from TAPCO. You can cut down on the cost by ordering the retaining plate from them, too and saving on the shipping from Krebs (which I'm guessing is more than $3). The shipping from TAPCO on both parts ought to be about $6.95.

 

Sorry for the bad gouge!

 

Jim

[budney 0]

I don't know if that handguard come with the lower retainer, if not, tapco sell one with it for $58.

 

Doh! Devildog is 100% right... The cheapest and easiest option is to get the Saiga-specific version from TAPCO.

Awesome! I've updated the original post with the new sources and prices. Thanks to your tip on a cheaper butt-stock, the entire package is less than $1 more than the price of my original shopping list.

 

One thing I'm curious about, though: is there anything special about the grip screw? It's $9.95 from RPB. It would seem like a similarly specced screw from the hardware store should be under $1.

 

--Len.

[Navy87Guy 1]

One thing I'm curious about, though: is there anything special about the grip screw? It's $9.95 from RPB. It would seem like a similarly specced screw from the hardware store should be under $1.

 

--Len.

 

I meant to look around. You don't need the grip screw (that comes with the pistol grip) - what you need is the pistol grip nut. I was in the same position - spent $8 and now I have an extra screw. I know I've seen some places with just the nut for around $3 - of course the shipping is probably $7! I'll see if I can find some other sources and post them for you.

 

Jim

 

ETA:

 

Here's what I found:

Poly Technologies: $3.95 + $7 S/H (http://www.polytechparts.com/)

 

If I had been clever enough, I would have tried the nut and washer trick. I will say that the grip nut sits down into the hole at an angle...I don't know how that plays into it.

 

I'd recommend that you check out sits when you're ordering something else, and if you see one, throw it in with your order. My $0.02...

Edited July 4, 2007 by Navy87Guy

[budney 0]

I've tried to edit the original post to keep the "shopping list" up to date, but it was a bad idea: the more I edit the post, the more unreadable it becomes. Below is the current state of my "shopping list" as I follow this thread and keep trying to come up with the cheapest, simplest, legal Saiga-AK conversion.

 

Here's the current list. The total cost of the conversion is $83.50 plus shipping and misc. hardware:

1. From Kreb's Custom: Custom retaining plate. Cost: $9.50 plus shipping.
   
2. From JSE Surplus: Galil-style folding stock, SAW-style pistol grip, and Tapco single-hook trigger group. Price: $74.00 plus shipping.
   

Notes on the current list:

• The buttstock and trigger group represent four US parts replacing original Russian parts. It's my understanding that this brings the gun into 922 compliance.
  
• The Kreb's retaining plate is cheaper than most sources of the Tapco "shepherd's crook" plate, but might be a dollar or two more than the cheapest. I don't know for sure if it's really better--but it definitely looks beefier to me.
  
• The Tapco pistol grip comes with a screw. Matching nuts and washers will be procured from a local hardware store.
  
• The Galil-style handguard is expensive. To keep costs down, I plan to keep the original handgrip.
  

Edited July 4, 2007 by Leonard Budney

[Navy87Guy 1]

The parts you've listed will get you in compliance. Just to be safe, get in the habit of counting all the parts - not just the ones you are replacing. So in your case, by adding a pistol grip, you are now at 15 countable parts - and you have 5 US-made parts installed (so you're good). If you thread your muzzle and add a device, you'll need to make sure it is US-made, unless you end up replacing something else (handguard or gas piston).

 

As far as the retaining plate, just get it at the cheapest price you can. "Beefier" isn't necessarily better -- especially since it has to fit into a relatively tight spot. I'm sure the Kreb's plate is good - they're a top company. Given what it does, though (just holds the axis pins in place) it doesn't need to be made to survive a nuclear blast - although with only $4 shipping it looks like Kreb's is the best price anyway.

 

Jim

[budney 0]

The parts you've listed will get you in compliance. Just to be safe, get in the habit of counting all the parts - not just the ones you are replacing. So in your case, by adding a pistol grip, you are now at 15 countable parts - and you have 5 US-made parts installed (so you're good). If you thread your muzzle and add a device, you'll need to make sure it is US-made, unless you end up replacing something else (handguard or gas piston).

Thanks for all your help! I'm ready to put the order through, except for one thing: the more I search this forum, the more bad things I hear about the Tapco buttstock. The Ace is out of the question for cost reasons, but is there a better stock (folder or not) for a good price? I found this set at K-Var, which keeps me in the ballpark on price, but I'd prefer a side-folder if I can find one.

 

I could've sworn that as I looked in this forum, I found a link to a an aluminum side-folder that resembled the Ace one, for about $50--but now I can't find it. Am I dreaming?

 

Thanks!

Len.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Leonard Budney

[Navy87Guy 1]

I don't have any experience with the TAPCO side folder, but I do have a TAPCO T6 collapsible. It's a decent stock - for the price. I certainly wouldn't plan on busting down any doors with it, but the butt and its operating mechanism seem solid enough. It has a plastic extension tube, not aluminum. It's not nearly as nice as the CAA Collapsible I have on my Saiga -- but then again that set up cost me over $200!

 

The advantage of the TAPCO stock is that it's relatively cheap and it's easy to install. It certainly won't compete with a top end solid folding stock or MagPul collapsible -- but it won't break the bank on you, either. FWIW, I did keep the TAPCO SAW grip on my Lancaster -- it functions just fine and the price was right.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jim

 

(P.S. - Don't let the fact that I'm trying to sell my TAPCO T6 make you think I'm biased. I'm really not!)

[budney 0]

(lost my edit button)

 

Here's the current list. The total cost of the conversion is $122.97 plus shipping and misc. hardware:

1. From JSE Surplus: SAW-style pistol grip, and Tapco single-hook trigger group. Cost: $44.00 plus shipping.
   
2. From DPH Arms: Romanian folding stock, shepherd's crook retaining plate and a US-made 30-round magazine. Cost: $78.97 plus shipping.
   

Notes on the current list:

• The Romanian steel folding stock is reputed to be "rock solid," much better than the Tapco plastic stock.
  
• I planned all along to get a 30-round magazine, but left it out of the list; it's included now because it's needed for 922 compliance. Factoring that in, this list is only about $20 more than the cheapest shopping list I've come up with.
  
• The pistol grip, magazine and trigger group represent seven US parts. The count is 15 parts, 7 of them US and 8 of them Russian. It's my understanding that this brings the gun into 922 compliance.
  
• The retaining plate costs more than the one from Kreb's Custom, but it's $1.27 cheaper when shipping is factored in.
  
• The Tapco pistol grip comes with a screw. Matching nuts and washers will be procured from a local hardware store.
  

Edited July 6, 2007 by Leonard Budney

[Navy87Guy 1]

If you're going to use standard AK mags, then you need to install a bullet guide. You can either make your own (like the tutorial shows) or you can buy one (your best source would be Dinzag, here in the Forum). Without the guide, your US mag won't work properly.

 

I don't have a wire folder, but from what I've heard they can be pretty rough on your shoulder. If you get one, you probably want to spring for the rubber butt pad to put over the end. Nothing ruins the enjoyment of your new rifle like a sore shoulder! If you get a chance, you might want to try one out before you spend the money to put one on your rifle. Do you want a side folder for convenience or because it's cool? I put a folder on mine for both reasons - but it's a bit different with that full-size M4 buttstock and rubber butt pad.

 

Also, you don't necessarily need a US mag. You could buy TAPCO followers and use them in foreign mags and still make your parts count. I'd only recommend that if you had a stash of foreign-made mags or if you got some cheap. The TAPCO followers are plastic and won't hold up forever.

 

Your best bet would be to change out the gas piston and not have to worry about magazines at all. Not that it's likely to happenwithe a BATFE Agent standing around, but technically you'd be violating 922R if someone put a mag without US parts into your gun. Whenever possible, I'm an advocate of meeting 922R compliance with just the gun.

 

Jim

[budney 0]

If you're going to use standard AK mags, then you need to install a bullet guide. You can either make your own (like the tutorial shows) or you can buy one (your best source would be Dinzag, here in the Forum). Without the guide, your US mag won't work properly.

Right, I'm planning to make one following the tutorial. I didn't mention it because it's under "misc hardware" in the shopping list.

 

Do you want a side folder for convenience or because it's cool? I put a folder on mine for both reasons - but it's a bit different with that full-size M4 buttstock and rubber butt pad.

Both--but I'm unsure whether it's as convenient as I'm imagining. Basically for easier transport and storage. I have nothing against a fixed stock, and would happily go for a non-folding Euro-sized plastic stock if I got a good deal on one. I'd actually sorta prefer that, because I like the classic look. As of the last update, I hadn't found one, and the Romy folder was both the cheapest and most solid stock I'd found so far.

 

Your best bet would be to change out the gas piston and not have to worry about magazines at all. Not that it's likely to happenwithe a BATFE Agent standing around, but technically you'd be violating 922R if someone put a mag without US parts into your gun. Whenever possible, I'm an advocate of meeting 922R compliance with just the gun.

I agree--exactly that has been causing me grave misgivings. I'm a bit nervous about the effort of swapping the piston, and unsure which one to get. From searching in this forum, I can't find one that's a drop-in replacement, and I can't tell if the standard 6.25" can be used as-is, or if it requires some sort of modification.

 

--Len.

[Navy87Guy 1]

Here's a buttstock option: http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?prod...=251&page=1 It comes with the pistol grip, but you could sell that off for $10. The advantage to this one is that it's US made, so you've solved your parts count problem. It doesn't specify, but it looks like the NATO length. You can always add the extended butt pad if the LOP is not comfortable enough.

 

For $4, I'd also get a real pistol grip nut (since you're already paying the shipping).

 

As far as the piston, you'd need an AK74 piston - they are 6" long (vice 6.25). I have one on order...I'll let you know how it goes!

 

Jim

[nalioth 405]

As far as the piston, you'd need an AK74 piston - they are 6" long (vice 6.25). I have one on order...I'll let you know how it goes!

When building AKM and AK74 type rifles from kits, the pistons are pretty much interchangeable. I'd think this would be the same for the Saiga.

[wlnt 2]

sorry,

louielouie

Edited July 10, 2007 by louielouie