Are ALL of the Saigas this accurate??

[xberet 0]

Based to a very large degree on what I've learned from YOU here in these forums, I suggested to a friend who has been fighting a Bushmaster to set it aside and buy a .223 Saiga. I did this very tentatively. My friend is an absolute accuracy nut. He and I have shot together for more than 20 years, for fun and then competitively and now for fun again and his fanatical quest for the perfect group has pushed me almost..... crazier than I am. The flip side of his compulsion is that he is an unbelievable long distance shot. I've seen him shoot incredible groups at 1000 yards with a 25X scoped custom .308 Mauser.

 

First trip to the range was mostly a function test with Wolf ammo. Not a gliltch and no carbon build up like the Bushmaster.

 

Second trip to the range, it's wearing the Bushmaster's scope, a pretty basic 2.5X10. First shots of Wolf .223 were used for checking and setting the scope at 50 yards. Then he shot a few groups and at that range groups were tight and clean, maybe 3/4 inch, usually with a couple touching and a couple flown out enough to spread the group to the 3/4. Then he shifted to the 100 yard target. Slightly larger overall groups, the center of the group nice and tight, the rest of the hits close but still within 3/4-1". He of course hated the trigger. He hates all triggers.

 

Now.. I'd have called it good and given up while I was ahead, not he. Out came his pet .223 handload, a 60ish grain Nosler load that he refuses to give me details on. If it's consistent with his other loads, it's about 10-15% over max. Remember, I had told him the Saiga was reputed to be accurate AND more reliable than his Bushmaster, I told him that was the consensus here on this forum and that there were some pretty sharp people here saying that.

 

You guys have made me look good. Using his handload the Saiga repeatedly turned in 1/4" groups. Cloverleafs or better. At 100 yards. With NOTHING else being done to it except mounting a mid priced scope. Now it gets an optics upgrade, financed by the sale of the crappy Bushmaster.

 

And I get to be smug. THANK YOU !!!

[longhunter-CO 0]

Using his handload the Saiga repeatedly turned in 1/4" groups. Cloverleafs or better. At 100 yards. With NOTHING else being done to it except mounting a mid priced scope. Now it gets an optics upgrade, financed by the sale of the crappy Bushmaster.

 

And I get to be smug. THANK YOU !!!

 

1/4" groups . If you really wanted to thank us you would get us his load data.

[xberet 0]

Using his handload the Saiga repeatedly turned in 1/4" groups. Cloverleafs or better. At 100 yards. With NOTHING else being done to it except mounting a mid priced scope. Now it gets an optics upgrade, financed by the sale of the crappy Bushmaster.

 

And I get to be smug. THANK YOU !!!

 

1/4" groups . If you really wanted to thank us you would get us his load data.

Sorry, he's like a mad scientist. In over two decades he hasn't ever let me see his reloading data. I've been watching him shoot HOT HOT (but usually accurate as heck) loads for years....

you should be around when he shoots his .375 Taylor!!

[termite 463]

At the range today, my Bushmaster Xm15 was putting "the good loads" within a 3" group at 50 yards, changed "range bought targets" and with my x39 and iron sights, was putting the same ammo in 1 1/2 - 2" groups on the same targets. NOW, before everyone goes WOW, remember that I can watch TV with my left eye, but not read a newspaper, but with my right eye, I can read a newspaper, but not watch TV, and NO I don't have special glasses, just the same ones that I've had for over 10 years, I can see to drive, so shut up. I am right eye dominant, so after about 15 yards, it's more or less a blur because I don't wear my glasses when I shoot, that's why ALL my guns are scoped, except for the Saigas, but the x39 was better than the Bushmaster at 50yards with the same ammo. Now at 100 yards, the wolf was all over a 12" shoot & see while the good stuff was doing anywhere from 1/2" to 2" groups, depending on what gun I was shooting. Even out of the V93 with the beta drum, I got all within a 2" group, using the bipod and shooting as fast as I could aquire the target in all 100 rounds. The wolf may do good in short range, but long range, it ain't worth the powder it takes to get it there

[devildog1122 0]

I think you're comparing two different caliber .223 and 7.62x39? Am I correct?

Edited July 22, 2007 by devildog1122

[termite 463]

CORRECTION:

 

The Bushmaster was shooting .223 ammo, the Saiga was shooting X39 loads, but from the same MANUFACTURER. I don't want anyone to think that I was shooting .223 out of my X39 or X39 out of my .223. Although my shell shrinker and shell enlarger are on order, this way, I can buy 22 shorts and just make them anything I want, kind of like the weather machine that W used to trash Norleans, which did damage my wifes broom as she was coming home from visiting family. :)

 

YEH SHE'S ASLEEP

Edited July 22, 2007 by termite

[ironhead7544 35]

3 inch groups from an AR, somethings wrong there. Does other ammo do better? Whats the trigger pull like?

[JK-47 33]

Xberet, is this a stock saiga or a converted one? if converted, what parts did you use? is it the 20" or 16" model? I'm really intrigued (and slightly skeptical) of the idea of 1/4" groups from a Saiga.

[termite 463]

The trigger pull is STIFF as crap and about 4000 rounds thru the gun so far, and the barrel is the required 16". I know that most of my problem with it is the trigger pull, messing up the shots, but I don't have the AR for long range shooting, I leave that to my CZ guns, which give me 1/2" groups easily. A 3" group at 50 yards is still a kill. There was a guy that came up about 20 minutes before I left and he was having even worst problems from his Olympic arms AR, but there again, he was shooting surplus ammo. The main reason that I am in love with all my CZ guns is the double set trigger, normal pull is OK, but click that puppy forward, and it's a totally different world.

And I have also been told, by being watched by the range guy, and I have caught myself doing it, is that I tend to pull my arm back when firing, not squeeze the trigger with my finger, that problem I am working on correcting, that's why all the rounds on Saturdays and Sundays, so until I retrain my arm and brain to work together, I'll just have to burn ammo until I get it right, but I think it stems from my older brothers always giving me a gun when I was younger with bad ass loads in it, and them laughing their asses off when I hit the ground. They never taught me to shoot, only used me as test dummy for their loading "skills". They where my big brothers, I trusted them, at least until about 12 years old, and people wonder why 2 shoulder surgeries, and 60% hearing loss in one ear, 20% in the other. RUN FOREST RUN :)