non-cycling S-12

[dochoc 4]

Hi

Newbie to S-12 ownership.Picked up my gun a couple days ago,and tried her out today.Initially was finding the occasional spent cartridge was getting caught half in and half out of the ejection port.This rapidly got worse ,and soon every case was caught.Any thoughts on what I should try.

The gun is a standard Russian factory supplied SPETZNAZ -1 version.This has the Manual bolt hold open,factory magwell flash hider and picatinny rail.The gun comes with a factory fitted 8-round magazine.On receipt of the gun I thoroughly cleaned everything to remove the factory applied inhibitor,degreased and applied some light gun oil to the moving parts.Everthing feels normal in action,the magazine even clicks in nicely when full with the bolt shut,which I was not expecting.The only slight worry I had was when you cycle the bolt back,and then slowly come forward into the bolt closed position,the bolt holds open a bit and need a small push to fully close.Is this normal??

 

The gas regulator is in the factory position number 2 and the cartridges used are non-magnum.In the UK most shooting grounds limit 12G to 28gram loads,and some are 24 gram.I tried both 24 and 28g with no appreciable difference.Do I just need a heavier load,or should the S-12 cycle these lighter load cartridges.

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

Edited to convert from UK metric weights

 

24gram is 0.8 oz and 28gram is 1 oz. btw barrel length is the standard (for the UK) 24 inches.

Edited October 27, 2007 by dochoc

[MikeD 541]

Hi

Newbie to S-12 ownership.Picked up my gun a couple days ago,and tried her out today.Initially was finding the occasional spent cartridge was getting caught half in and half out of the ejection port.This rapidly got worse ,and soon every case was caught.Any thoughts on what I should try.

The gun is a standard Russian factory supplied SPETZNAZ -1 version.This has the Manual bolt hold open,factory magwell flash hider and picatinny rail.The gun comes with a factory fitted 8-round magazine.On receipt of the gun I thoroughly cleaned everything to remove the factory applied inhibitor,degreased and applied some light gun oil to the moving parts.Everthing feels normal in action,the magazine even clicks in nicely when full with the bolt shut,which I was not expecting.The only slight worry I had was when you cycle the bolt back,and then slowly come forward into the bolt closed position,the bolt holds open a bit and need a small push to fully close.Is this normal??

 

The gas regulator is in the factory position number 2 and the cartridges used are non-magnum.In the UK most shooting grounds limit 12G to 28gram loads,and some are 24 gram.I tried both 24 and 28g with no appreciable difference.Do I just need a heavier load,or should the S-12 cycle these lighter load cartridges.

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

Edited to convert from UK metric weights

 

24gram is 0.8 oz and 28gram is 1 oz. btw barrel length is the standard (for the UK) 24 inches.

It is normal for the bolt not to close all the way if you help it forward. Just pull it all the way back and let it go. SOMETIMES a saiga needs to be broke in a little before they cycle lowbrass well. Make sure the #2 setting is on. The current gas setting will be the bottom number closest to the barrel. Double check and let us know if your gas setting is right.

[fosniper 0]

Yes, as Mike said, it is normal for the bolt not to go completely into battery if going slowly forward. I was concerned about this myself, until I stripped it and looked at the groove in the bolt carrier where the bolt rotates, you'll see a little ledge where it gets hung up. (No digital camera, sorry no pics) I don't know what function it serves, but I figure they wouldn't have made it that way without a damned good reason. And besides, in my case the gun functions flawlessly just like this.

 

As for the non-cycling, I read somewhere on here that someone (Max, I think) had a similar problem, and just backed out the gas selector two full turns. I'll post it if I can find it; various searches have turned up nothing so far. But you may want to try this. Screw the gas selector all the way in. Then, back it out until the first click.(Should be on "1) This is where it normally should operate. Then you would back it out to the "2" to use for lighter loads. But, don't stop there. Back it out, say, one full rotation, and fire a bunch of rounds through it. If you see some improvement, but still have a lot of FTEs, then maybe back it out another turn. I woudln't back it out too far, don't want to risk too much gas, battering the trunnion, etc. But this might be a "quick and easy" fix.

 

Hope this helps, or something does. Every time a Saiga doesn't work properly, somewhere an angel loses its wings to an SMG. (Bonus points if you get the reference)

 

EDIT: I found it! Took about an hour of creative searching. Just so you know I'm not talking out my ass here:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=135879

Edited October 28, 2007 by BlackBear

[dochoc 4]

Hi MD and Blackbear.

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply.Since I posted I have stripped the gun and removed the Gas regulator control.Two things have become apparent.First the rail in the receiver on one side is very pitted .Is this normal? should I take some wet and dry to it and polish it out, or just leave it?.Secondly the Gas regulator chamber was very dirty.I removed a lot of carbon from the 3 holes into the barrel.Possibly this is the cause of the FTE. Ihave attached some pics.

 

 

Pitting on rail

 

 

 

 

 

Original Gas regulator position

 

Gas bleed holes X3

 

 

Now everthing inside the gas regulator has been cleaned,how should I lubricate.Moly grease(very sparingly) or gun oil.Or does it actually need any lubing?

 

Thanks for the help.

[6500rpm 670]

At this point, since you have everything clean, I'd try to lightly lube everything with gun oil and give it another shot. The good thing is that it appears from the picture that the gas port holes are centered with the hole in the gas block (some in the states had ports that were off center and partially blocked). It also looks like you have 3 gas port holes, drilled in the barrel, some have 4. One mod we've done, especially with the 3 port versions, is to open the post size slightly. It involves removing the block retaining pins, and pressing the block off/on.

As usual, start with the simple stuff first, sounds like your off to a good start. If your running a buffer, take it out and see if that corrects things. Backing the gas adjustment plug one additional turn shouldn't be any big deal, but I wouldn't get carried away, less threads means less securing it to the block and possibly blow by past the threads. My guess is that you have it under control right now.

[fosniper 0]

Yeah, it does look like you're off to a good start. Don't go changing too much at once though. If you fix the problem, and changed 5 things at once, you'll never know which of the 5 was causing the original problem. One variable at a time, as my chemist professor used to scream at me.

 

Any good gun oil will work for the action. I don't know personally, I've never seen anything "official", but every single person on here, when the subject comes up, will tell you NOT to lubricate the gas system. Make sure it's well cleaned out, but it doesn't need any lube. This, again, is not my personal advice, just what I've heard. That being said, I've never lubed the gas system, and no matter how ruddy it turns out when I clean it, it always fires fine.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[dochoc 4]

6500rpm and Blackbear.

 

Again thanks.Have lightly lubed the action as you suggested ,and reassembled.Have not touched the side rail.Blackbear,good advice on not changing more than one thing at a time.Have simply cleaned and lubed,and will fire again.If still probs will try adjusting the Gas regulator out one more turn.

Am not too worried as the gun is brand new and if necessary will get it replaced.This is a little tricky in the UK as a shotgun capable of firing more than 3 rounds without reloading,is classed as a firearm and needs a firearm certificate.If you swop a firearm you need to re-apply for permission to own the new gun(even if it is identical to the old one).

Will post when I have shot again.

[dochoc 4]

Ok .went out today to test the marathon cleaning job yesterday.Started out using 1oz 12/70 load.Gas regulator on pos.2.Success,everything ejected and cycled smoothly.So decided to push my luck and turned the regulator down to position 1.Fired off 75 rounds.Only a couple FTE,and that was at the start.As the rounds went throught gun felt progressively better/smoother.Obviously running in nicely.Have left the regulator in pos 1 as the last 50 odd rounds cycled and ejected faultlessly.

Problem was obviously the coked up bleed holes and sticky initial action.Well chuffed with being able to run everthing on pos 1,and the factory magwell/8 shot magazine allows very slick and easy mag insertions even with the bolt closed.

Thanks everyone for the help and guidance.