SaltPeter 6 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 This guy mentions that the gun is NOT a converted Saiga 12, but is a real 12C. But he doesn't mention anything about it being a restricted sale. This could suck for the buyer when you pay the guy for the gun, then it gets transferred to your local FFL, who won't transfer it to you. Here's the link: http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976516681.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 he should say its LEO only. someone is gonna get burned. 900 is high, and after someone gets it and cant get it transferred to them, they are going to lose money on it when they resell it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infidel 0 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 This is exactly what I was trying to explain in an earlier thread...that a 12c LEO is exempt from being an illegal import because it was LEGALLY imported in that configuration. It has been grandfathered essentially, fromt he way I understand the wording of the expiration letter available from the ATF website. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-factsheet.htm "Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer semiautomatic assault weapons to persons who are not prohibited from receiving firearms." This is a semi-automatic assault weapon by ATF standards yes? I think 922 is moot because this shotgun did meet the requirements put forth in 922 because it was exempt from it for being a LEO gun. Now that it is legally here, and in conjunction with the above statement makes it legal as-is. . . . . but like I said last time, finding the FFL to do it anyway is the hard part. And putting the parts in is probably the safe move to make. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
edgo 0 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 How do we know it wasn't converted just as we do it and then marked up to make a buck? Looks like any old Saiga to me. Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 infedel, I do believe you are correct! but what about if you import a LEO weapon NOW? same rule? get the cops to buy me my new guns from now on? that cant be right.... ed: the saiga 12C has the model stamped into the left side of the reciever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
762minigun 1 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 How do we know it wasn't converted just as we do it and then marked up to make a buck? Looks like any old Saiga to me. Ed I dont know, have you ever looked at how difficult it might be to have that type folder installed? What would the cost be? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infidel 0 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 (edited) That looks like a real 12c to me. The mod to the receiver for that stock runs $150-200. Add another $150-200 for the stock/trunnion. I had it done to a Chinese rifle for an AKS-74 clone a couple years ago. Someone just posted a thread asking about this mod 2 days ago. . . . . bvamp: that's a damn good point. Edited October 22, 2004 by infidel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vladimir 0 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Guys, maybe I don't understand something or don't know something but I was shocked after reviewing this offer. 900$ ????????? For what? Its real cost is nearly 300$. Of course, here in Russia. Anyway +600$ is madly much. I think even saiga-030 won't cost so much. Moreover, I don't see anything rare or very rare there. It is very usual, I would say. Yes, the stock type. I can't say that I've seen a lot of such a stock but I've seen it enough many times to say that it is not rare. Just a remark. Regards! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 (edited) Vladimir: you like that, dont you? 900 dollars for what costs the factory 50 dollars to make. sad, if you ask me. hey vlad? hom much does say an american made AR15 go for there? a similar price as it does in america? or are there taxes up the yazoo there as well for gun imports/dealer markups? Edited October 22, 2004 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Infidel, by that logic, its legal for policemen to buy imported "nonsporting" arms, and sell them to the public at will, right? LEGALLY imported, LEGALLY sold. But cops don't. Why? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaltPeter 6 Posted October 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 None of the foreign companies import semi auto "assaut weapons" for individual officer sale. Just for agency purchases. I always thought that since 922r restricted the import of certain guns, the manufacturers would import them as "LEO/gov" only but they don't. I would really like to buy a brand new HK91, 93, or 94. Why won't they do it if Saiga did? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vladimir 0 Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 hey vlad? hom much does say an american made AR15 go for there? a similar price as it does in america? or are there taxes up the yazoo there as well for gun imports/dealer markups? This http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976410435.htm ? I thought this 'there' is in the U.S., especially www.gunsamerica.com server is located (with high probability) in Pittsburgh. And the rifle is sold as american made gun, of course. And it is sold in U.S. Then I don't understand what extra markups could be there. What I easily found: http://www.odcmp.com/Programs/AR15.htm. Other location, the same price order. Isn't that so? Seems no additional costs. Simiral prices with some +/- depending on particular manufacturer, barrel and so on. But in general it seems to have the same prices www.gunsamerica.com offers. Do I confuse something? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 SaltPeter: according to what Ive been told and seen for laws, your department can purchase and import anything it wants. I would guess, what you would need to do is buy the gun through your department and import it accordingly for work use, then in a few years, buy it back from the police department when it is "no longer needed" or the gun safe in the station house is full and they need the space. you can buy anything you want as long as its for "at work use". this is currently what the guys I know up here guarding nuke plants do as federal guards. when you quit, certain stuff would have to be returned or the department would have to release it to you as a "no longer needed" weapon, or else something like a renewing of weapons stocks. hope that helps you some. from your posts on here, you seem like a good honest cop, and I for one think you should be allowed to take advantage of this, and given any info to help you do so. For instance, how would you have been able to buy 8 round saiga 12 mags under dept letterhead before the ban left? you have to do the same thing that you did then is all, just a different #'d form to fill out is all I am thinking/seeing. just have the department buy it, and then liquidate it as something the department doesnt need. nothing illegal there, from what I can see. its the same as selling off the pump guns you no longer need or will use in the department if you were to all be issued saiga12's. you dont have to destroy the old department weapons is what the law is saying now, (like when you all changed your issued sidearms) but can sell them to officers or if they dont want them, to responsible and eligible citizens. Vladimir: what I was asking you is if the same make and model of AR15 that I would pay 900 dollars for here in america, is sold in russia for the equivalent of 900 dollars. we have import taxes here, as well as a firearms tax that drives up our prices. also, there is the capitolist effect here that goes by "supply and demand" that will drive up the cost of saigas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infidel 0 Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Infidel, by that logic, its legal for policemen to buy imported "nonsporting" arms, and sell them to the public at will, right? LEGALLY imported, LEGALLY sold. But cops don't. Why? From what I have heard after asking about bvamps question: there is a time limit the FFL must keep it or try to sell the firearm before moving it to someone else? Also, you need an approved form6 to import it, which utterly kills the chance of your FFL buddy getting them for you or your friends on a wim. I suppose a cop could buy one and then sell it to his FRIEND. Why don't they? Who says they don't? Realistically, I'm sure the fact that an approved form6 was needed, that cop might not want to do this for a friend. For a precise answer, we should have an FFL holder on this board confirm this... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vladimir 0 Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Bvamp: Sorry, I didn't understand the question. I can't say how much it goes for here. Never saw AR-15 and couldn't find it. I've heard of AR-15 being sold, exactly in one popular gun shop, but I don't know how much it costs. Any taxes are everywhere and it would be interesting to compare the price. I hope it won't be something about 1500$. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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