x39 and HP ammo

[topmaul 42]

Gents,

Sometimes my x39 has stoppages due to hp ammo normally I don't use HP but I happen to have boutgt some a while back and I have a 3 gun match coming up next weekend I was trying to decide between my CX4 Storm 9mm carbine or my x39 Saiga. My question is should I file my feed ramp a little so that the bullet will feed better or do you have any other suggestions. I guess I could go buy some FMJ or use the CX4

[jbremount 0]

Gents,

Sometimes my x39 has stoppages due to hp ammo normally I don't use HP but I happen to have boutgt some a while back and I have a 3 gun match coming up next weekend I was trying to decide between my CX4 Storm 9mm carbine or my x39 Saiga. My question is should I file my feed ramp a little so that the bullet will feed better or do you have any other suggestions. I guess I could go buy some FMJ or use the CX4

 

 

 

what type of bullet guide or feed ramp do you have? My saiga 7.62x39 feeds hollow points just fine, the problem is probably your bullet guide.

Edited November 19, 2007 by jbremount

[vjor 2]

Gents,

Sometimes my x39 has stoppages due to hp ammo normally I don't use HP but I happen to have boutgt some a while back and I have a 3 gun match coming up next weekend I was trying to decide between my CX4 Storm 9mm carbine or my x39 Saiga. My question is should I file my feed ramp a little so that the bullet will feed better or do you have any other suggestions. I guess I could go buy some FMJ or use the CX4

 

 

 

what type of bullet guide or feed ramp do you have? My saiga 7.62x39 feeds hollow points just fine, the problem is probably your bullet guide.

 

 

Same here, my feed on HP all the time, that is the only ones I buy, what type of trunnion on the gun?

and what bullet guide?

 

I did a 3/4 iron pipe bullet guide for my gun, 1/2 inch long from face of barrel to mag, is short like that

I can use ak47 mags and saiga mags, the guides for 7.62x39 are really simple not like the .223

and I have a round trunnion on the gun, I don't think filing the ramp will help, looks like the ramp

need some more meat to pick the nose of the round a little bit higher and drive it onto chamber on

rifle, I think your bullet are hitting the bottom of the chamber barrel and thats why the

FMJ feed and the HP get stock.

 

 

If you handy, get a 3/4 black iron pipe or galvanise nipple at Lowe's or home depot or hardware store

make them cut you a rim out of it 1/2 or 3/4 long and you cut out of the rim a feed ramp

drill and tap and you set to go if round trunnion, if cut trunnion get welding steel in same place

Lowe's, home depot or hardware store mesure your space on the cut on the trunnion

and use two pieces to make your feed ramp one on top of the other one, drill and tap

both and there you go.

 

This feed ramps or guides dont looks as nice as a machine one, but they work.

[lollygagger 1]

If the bullet guide is reasonably correct, it is NOt the issue...

 

The entrance to the chamber *is*.

 

I note that the Saiga has a minor "cut' made on the chamber at the 6:00 location, but it really is small and inadeqaute for HP use.

 

The CHAMBER needs a "radius", a "chamfer" made from the 8:00 position to the 4:00 position at a approximate 45 degree angle, the width of the "cut" being around 2mm at the widest (6:00 position).

 

This is almost identical to what is done on 1911 pistols to get them to feed HP.

 

The cut is done with a Dremel & fine stone -it is good to polish it with a felt tip and red jeweler's rouge afterwards.

 

Do this, there is no risk to the function of the gun, and it will feed HP & SP just as well as FMJ.

[jbremount 0]

If the bullet guide is reasonably correct, it is NOt the issue...

 

The entrance to the chamber *is*.

 

I note that the Saiga has a minor "cut' made on the chamber at the 6:00 location, but it really is small and inadeqaute for HP use.

 

The CHAMBER needs a "radius", a "chamfer" made from the 8:00 position to the 4:00 position at a approximate 45 degree angle, the width of the "cut" being around 2mm at the widest (6:00 position).

 

This is almost identical to what is done on 1911 pistols to get them to feed HP.

 

The cut is done with a Dremel & fine stone -it is good to polish it with a felt tip and red jeweler's rouge afterwards.

 

Do this, there is no risk to the function of the gun, and it will feed HP & SP just as well as FMJ.

 

 

 

I am not an AK expert, but I have never heard of problems with the converted Saiga's chamber and the need for additional chamber work for the gun to feed hollow points. I would suggest you fire off an email to a reputable source/AK builder (red stick/etc) before you start dremeling/stoning metal off the chamber.

 

I think your bullet guide is probably the part of your gun that is out of spec and different from the many other Saiga rifles that can shoot hollowpoints ammo.

[lollygagger 1]

FWIW, it is quite common to find AK & SKS weapons that don't handle HP & SP ammo well.

 

This is well represented at the major sites dealing with these weapons.

 

If it is the problem, without addressing it -there will be no improvement no matter how often it is tried. This is the nature of things. Things only improve -when improved (the other approach is called magic).

 

LG

[topmaul 42]

I have a Dinzag feed ramp in my gun but I think I set it back too far. because the hollow point hits the bullet guide squarly and causes the stoppage. I will think about redrilling a bit forward of where it is now or making a feed ramp as Vjor suggested. At any rate the upcoming 3 gun match I plan to use my CX4 Storm Carbine instead of my Saiga x39 that should give me time to deal with the problem and test my solution. Or I could just go out and get some Wolfe FMJ ammo not solve the problem but I could get by with it.

[jbremount 0]

I have a Dinzag feed ramp in my gun but I think I set it back too far. because the hollow point hits the bullet guide squarly and causes the stoppage. I will think about redrilling a bit forward of where it is now or making a feed ramp as Vjor suggested. At any rate the upcoming 3 gun match I plan to use my CX4 Storm Carbine instead of my Saiga x39 that should give me time to deal with the problem and test my solution. Or I could just go out and get some Wolfe FMJ ammo not solve the problem but I could get by with it.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

"I have a Dinzag feed ramp in my gun but I think I set it back too far"

 

(1) My opinion/2 cents again: I did not think the above was possibe as the bullet guide is designed to fit.

I would email Dinzag and discuss the problem with him. If you are using his bullet guide, he is the go to man for fixing the bullet guide problem. From the short time I have been on this board, I have noticed that he will stand behind his products 100% until the problem is solved.

 

(2) How much did you take off the magazine catch on the gun to make the standard AK mag work? I am thinking, if your magazine catch has been shorten too much, when you insert the magazine, your bullets are pointed downward and this can induce a stoppage as you discribed. If so, you may have to do a fix here, not hogging out the chamber. The Wolf hollowpoint bullets are not much different from the Wolf FMJ bullets!

[vjor 2]

Well is not magic on how things are done, just work, see when I did my bullet guides

I was thinking on HP and how they get stock or the tip get fubar as they touch the

bottom of the chamber even with a bevel on the chamber mouth, not as much as russian

steel ammo but copper jacket hp, By the way the Saiga rifle I have has no bevel on the

chamber mouth at all, the guides pick the bullet high enough like that the tip of the bullet

never touches anything, the longer you make your bullet guide the higher it will pick the bullet.

If you make the bullet guide long that will go over the face of the mag like the guides on the

.223 it will pick the bullet really high, you may have to play with it to get yours right

, on my 7.62x39 I compromise because I wanted the gun to still use Saiga mags

and make it 1/2 inch long from the face of the barrel to were the trunnion ends and the

mag well starts, but a little bit longer may work better if you want, the best way is to make

few and see what works better for you.

 

By the way I have use dinzag bullet guides too and don't have a problem with them at all

I will recommend to get FMJ or the storm until U fully test your guide before go on match

and have any problems.

 

By the way what lollygagger says can be done and works, but some times the soft

point and hp tips get fubar a little bet, how I know, because I have seen and done it,

one simple test is to get about 5 rounds and cycle them by hand and see how the tips are

on the bullets after you cycle them, just make sure your gun is point on a safe position

and make sure you don't touch that hammer at all, or you will have a nice boooom.

 

Here is a pic of the guide on the gun, not the best looking bullet guide

but there it is and is really dirty, big kids use gun last weekend and don't bother to

clean it.

 

 

[d0lphin2 0]

I would look at the bullet guide or lip of the mag. I had no problem with the original saiga 10 round mag and they shot fast than you could say cat in a hat. in those tapco 20 round tankers and a 30 round some where angle up and not feeding. I put on the saftey and realesed the mad and the bullet dropped out. It was angled to much to even fire but I still had the rifle pointed down range. I was using bear FMJ. I think my dinzag feed ramp came out to much on the trunion. I can file a little more of an angle. I have been using snap caps to watch it feed with the dust cover off. Can you put graphite or anything else on the ramp for quicker action?

Edited November 20, 2007 by Revelation

[vjor 2]

I would look at the bullet guide or lip of the mag. I had no problem with the original saiga 10 round mag and they shot fast than you could say cat in a hat. in those tapco 20 round tankers and a 30 round some where angle up and not feeding. I put on the saftey and realesed the mad and the bullet dropped out. It was angled to much to even fire but I still had the rifle pointed down range. I was using bear FMJ. I think my dinzag feed ramp came out to much on the trunion. I can file a little more of an angle. I have been using snap caps to watch it feed with the dust cover off. Can you put graphite or anything else on the ramp for quicker action?

 

 

No graphite or anything, it will be clean out by the bullets as they feed, best solution

polish the guide until smooth as silk and polish really good, the bullets will feed,

by the way that guide above have been bump fire no problems at all.

 

 

One thing I will say, if you are going to mod any mags and not the mag catch on the gun

please don't touch the upper side of the lug on the mags, file the bottom side to fit

on the untouched mag catch on the rifle, if you do file the upper side on the mags lug

you can change angle, and the front of the mag can be a different angle

giving you feeding problems.

 

By the way some Saigas will not need to be file at all or ak47 mags alter, but not all

just luck of the draw I guess.