Conversion ongoing, found some new problems and solutions

[Saigaczech 9]

Well, so far so good. I am using the instructions at www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion as a general guide. It seems that there are definatelly differences between the Saiga 223/7.62x39 and the Saiga .308 as far as internal build. BTW, thanks for the safety issue that was posted up top, it seems I have the set trigger version of the problem. Lucky My neighbor has a MIG welding set, I think I have a use for that trigger plate metal, heheh.

 

Anyway, managed to get the trigger guard off and remove the trigger plate. Luckily my trigger hole was made at the factory and I was saved some work. Had to use cobalt drill on the rivets as they would not punch out. I manged to remove the front trigger guard spot weld using cobalt drills too (BTW, the best way is to use small size drills first and increase in size as you drill through. Just including that for the guys who never got to take shop, like me). The two other spot weld on the trigger plate would not budge. I ended up chiseling them loose, actually what I did was break off the trigger plate with the spot welded sectins still attached to the receiver. A Dremel with grinder bit and lated sanding drum leveled this out nicely. Basic receiver prep is done.

 

Fire control group fitting, some problems showed up.

 

1) I ordered a Tapco G2 with single hook to save myself the trouble of cutting the double hook notch. First problem was the hammer fit. It seems that the hammer has a shoulder low down on it that interfered with the receiver cross bar that is forward and above the hammer pin. The hammer would get caught on it and not swing freely in the required arc. I located the problem area by observing the way the hammer swung and by comparing to the original hammer. Dremel to the rescue, ground down the lower portion of the hammer tang where indicated by observation, tested for function, problem solved.

 

2) The darned disconnector spring. Freeing it from the original trigger-disconnector assembly was problematic as I did not have the right size punch for the pin that held it in place, ended up using an undersize punch against the edges and working it out that way. Got spring free. Tried assembly of the Tapco trigger-disconnector assembly, no go. It seems that the diameter of the disconnector spring was greater then the corresponding hole in the Tapco disconnector. Out with the Coblat drill and I expanded the hole diameter to 5/32 so the spring would fit, except that the hole in the Tapco part was about 3/8" too short to accept the spring properly. I drilled some more but was still about 1/8" too short and I was getting worried about drilling through the part. Ended up cutting a couple of coils off of the spring so it would fit and I could assemble it. Tested and trigger group worked well, except for the safety.

 

3) Safety. As noted in the top of this forum section there are problems using the G2 FCG in the Saiga. It seems that my safety has an ear just long enough to prevent firing but not long enough to prevent trigger movement, needs another 1/8" to be truly positive. I ended up with a hair trigger type set trigger if used as is. It is unknown if wear would later turn this into fire upon taking the safety off problem. Upon inspecting the safety lever I found that it looked like it originally had longer ears but that they had been deliberately filed/ground off, probably to provide functionality with the weird long trigger the Saiga 308 has. I intend to have my neighbor MIG weld some of the scrap steel from the trigger plate to the original safety and grind and file the ears to functional configuration.

 

Still waiting on the butt stock to arrive along with the magazines. Have to decide how to refinish the project as there is a lot of bare rusting metal under that trigger plate. Will post again when I have further progress to give notice of further problem and solutions to any other Saiga newbys. Hope my experiences and thoughts help other find Saiga goodness.

[Zebra 0]

2) The darned disconnector spring. Freeing it from the original trigger-disconnector assembly was problematic as I did not have the right size punch for the pin that held it in place, ended up using an undersize punch against the edges and working it out that way. Got spring free. Tried assembly of the Tapco trigger-disconnector assembly, no go. It seems that the diameter of the disconnector spring was greater then the corresponding hole in the Tapco disconnector. Out with the Coblat drill and I expanded the hole diameter to 5/32 so the spring would fit, except that the hole in the Tapco part was about 3/8" too short to accept the spring properly. I drilled some more but was still about 1/8" too short and I was getting worried about drilling through the part. Ended up cutting a couple of coils off of the spring so it would fit and I could assemble it. Tested and trigger group worked well, except for the safety.

 

 

Still waiting on the butt stock to arrive along with the magazines. Have to decide how to refinish the project as there is a lot of bare rusting metal under that trigger plate. Will post again when I have further progress to give notice of further problem and solutions to any other Saiga newbys. Hope my experiences and thoughts help other find Saiga goodness.

 

cheap click pens my friend. cheap pen springs are what i use for disconnecter springs. perfect fit and almost identical to the standand AK disconnecter springs and work just as well. the best part is you can usually get the pens for free!!!

[E-TAC 47]

You should also weld up the trigger a bit. if you look and compare the your stock trigger and the Tapco G2 you'll see the difference. I weld them up and it keeps it form moving and it's the safe way to do it. If you need I will snap a picture of the mod during the next batch of conversions.

 

Aloha Jammers

[Saigaczech 9]

Well, my K-Var stock arrived today. Looks like I am ready to get everything finished up, parts wise. Still waiting on the magazines, but I figure next week earliest unless they are out of stock, especially with Christmas around the corner. I will see about welding up the safety and trigger for more positive engagement, figure next week earliest, my neighbor is very busy with work and family weekends, usually has time on Mondays though. I decided to use Duplicolor high temperature paint, black, for now. Later I may buy some Duracoat and finish customizing. Looks like no muzzle attachment for my gun right now. Not sure what would fit and seems like mostly foreign parts are available. Will keep looking though. Anyway, wil post more as I get more done.

[E-TAC 47]

Weld up trigger to reduce the gap.

[Saigaczech 9]

Weld up trigger to reduce the gap.

 

 

OK, I got the pics and what you wrote and understood just about nothing. The pictures do not make sense without accompanying text to explain what is being done. Sorry if I seem dumb, still a bit new to modifying fire control groups.

 

On a further note I finished fitting the K-var stock.. Looks and feels good.

[havasusnipr 0]

I polished all of the contact parts of my G2 trigger today to get the "gritty" feeling out and it really made a huge difference. Did anybody run into the trigger spring being to long? Mine was but I had access to a satandard AK spring to replace the stock one.

[Saigaczech 9]

Well, got a little more done today. Sanded my furniture to get rid of seam marks and high spots. Also fitted my trigger guard an drilled the screw holes. My next door neighbor won't be able to help me weld up my safety until Monday earliest, so no progress in that area. I did a bit of refinishing and painting on the barrel receiver assembly.

 

Found a possible problem with the factory finish, it bleeds whehn exposed to 70% isopropanol. As part of my painting prep I was degreasing and cleaning in two stages. The first stage was wipe down with Simple Green heavy duty cleaner/degreaser followed by a second stage of wiping down with 70% isopropanol (sorry I do not keep acetone in the house and carb cleaner is really nasty stuff chemically. Anyway, during my wipe down with the isopropanol the factory finish started bleeding a dark indigo blue/violet color. I finished up and the gun did not seem any worse for wear. I proceeded to paint the gun with Rust-O-Leum High Temperature finish, black. It is quite flat and looks like a really nice park job. Originally I mean to only paint the bare metal but once I saw the finish I had to do the whole gun. I will give it another coat tomorrow to make sure everything looks good. I might go pick up some OD green paint for the furniture tomorrow. I know it is not DuraCoat, but I can apply that at a later date if this finish fails.

 

At this rate I figure I should have a completed rifle by Wednesday. Hope to test it out at my local range then.

[Saigaczech 9]

Did a second coat of the Rust-O-Leum High tempreature paint today. Looks real good. Now to let the gun cure for a while. Tomorrow I start reassembly.

 

While waiting for the paint to dry I started workign on the handguard. Decided to cut down the top front and a gentle angle and add cooling vents. Used masking tape to do a lay out and started slow with small bits and working up to larger and larger to a max of 3/8". Cut between the drilled holes with a Dremel and cut off wheel. Due to the high speed of the Dremel ( I used the lowest setting) the nylon got melted a bit. I ended up doing a bunch of filing by hand and using rasps and different grades of files to finish and smooth it up. Made three rectangular cooling vent per side, checked for spacing and size and reworked what needed enlarging to make both sides uniform. Does not look too bad. Tomorrow I will refinish the furniture and see what it looks like.

[turbo mike 1]

How about some pics!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Did a second coat of the Rust-O-Leum High tempreature paint today. Looks real good. Now to let the gun cure for a while. Tomorrow I start reassembly.

 

While waiting for the paint to dry I started workign on the handguard. Decided to cut down the top front and a gentle angle and add cooling vents. Used masking tape to do a lay out and started slow with small bits and working up to larger and larger to a max of 3/8". Cut between the drilled holes with a Dremel and cut off wheel. Due to the high speed of the Dremel ( I used the lowest setting) the nylon got melted a bit. I ended up doing a bunch of filing by hand and using rasps and different grades of files to finish and smooth it up. Made three rectangular cooling vent per side, checked for spacing and size and reworked what needed enlarging to make both sides uniform. Does not look too bad. Tomorrow I will refinish the furniture and see what it looks like.

I used to do my HGs like that. Lotta work ain't it?

Even with an endmill it still takes awhile.

[LESchwartz 9]

Weld up trigger to reduce the gap.

 

JAMMER,

 

Are you trying to widden the trigger to reduce the side-to-side movement? If so, you can also use spacers. I used 5/16" OD x 3/16" L (#10 ID) for the left side and a 5/16" OD x 3/8" L (#10 ID) for the right. A little sanding and they hold the trigger rock solid in the center. I ordered PN's 67713032 & 67713156 from MSCDirect.com. For more information see my thread: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7937.

 

Larry

[E-TAC 47]

Weld up trigger to reduce the gap.

 

JAMMER,

 

Are you trying to widden the trigger to reduce the side-to-side movement? If so, you can also use spacers. I used 5/16" OD x 3/16" L (#10 ID) for the left side and a 5/16" OD x 3/8" L (#10 ID) for the right. A little sanding and they hold the trigger rock solid in the center. I ordered PN's 67713032 & 67713156 from MSCDirect.com. For more information see my thread: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7937.

 

Larry

 

Roger that, Thanks for the info. I like FCG's to have less parts, that's just my style. Your info should make it easier for Saigaczech.

 

Aloha

Edited December 18, 2007 by JAMMER

[fossten 1]

One tip on using a click pen spring for the trigger - use two of them, put one inside the other one. Makes it stiffer and more like the factory spring. Less likely to wear out.

[Saigaczech 9]

Another update. I tried fitting my hammer after installing the trigger guide. To install teh trigger guard I used 8-32 x1/4" black button head screws with Allen wrench pattern. I fitted them so the nuts would be inside the receiver and the button head would be on the outside for aesthetic reasons. The problem is tht hte hammer now drags on the nut under the front of the trigger guard. Luckily the hammer is such a massive piece that I can grind down the are where it rubs without affecting reliability/structure. None of the fire control surfaces are involved so I am not worried about the fix. While I am at it, I may as well grind down the hammer side to allow for the bolt hold open on the right side. I may do a polish job on the sear surfaces too.

 

I noticed that the same trigger on my AMD-65 build has the same play in it with safety on as the Saiga, but then I release the trigger on the AMD-65 the trigger snaps back into proper position while the one on the Saiga stays put. Seems like there is a bit of drag/friction on the Saiga trigger groups that prevents the trigger from moving back, or maybe a weaker spring. I will investigate this a bit further as it may make the welding up of the safety/trigger interface unnecessary. I prefer not to do any welding on the trigger as I like the basic system to stay that way. AK triggers are supposed to be sloppy anyway and a skilled rifleman can work around it. I have light triggered bolt guns for accuracy work.

 

Otherwise I am waiting for filler to dry on the handguard where I added a rail in the front. I had some Ergo nylon AR-15 handguard rails lying about (I have since switched to aluminum rails on my ARs) which I cut the size. I only wanted a short rail to attach a bipod to. Used a Dremel to machine a slot for a rail and used the sling screw to attach. Added another screw to the rear to keep it secure. Now filling gaps around it with some epoxy filler so that it can be sanded smooth before refinishing.

 

It seems my conversion project is undergoing constant revision as I keep going. Probably as I find new wrinkles and work through them. Also I tend to get inspired to try to do new things. I will try to post some pictures of where I am at with the project and then some of the finished work. Keep in mind this is my first conversion and I am not a professional. Thanks.

[Saigaczech 9]

Build is on hold due to weather. Too cold to do any painting in the garage with doors open. Trigger group has been fitted, works great. Small rail added to front of handguard for bipod, needs sanding to blend in wher filler was used. Once it gets above 50 degrees again I intend to paint the furniture OD green and finish the build. Brrr, its cold here for WA state, but warmer then Pittsburgh was when I lived there.