teknojunge 0 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 After reading a few of the threads lower down I have a question about the legality of using my FBMG 20 round mags in my non converted Saiga .308. The only change I have made in the stock model I bought is adding a skeletal stock that I bought at a gun show made by Saiga. So the question is do I need to add more US parts to legally have the FBMG mag in my rifle? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monomonk 0 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Virtually everyone who answers this question in this forum will say "yes"--- to use the 20 round mag legally, you must put in the requisite number of American made parts. I have challenged this position because the rifle was legally imported and designed to use removable mags. Also, in my opinion, a Dragunov stock is not a pistol grip and does not invoke the American parts rule. In the past I have asked for proof from the other side and haven't gotten it. I think there is no clear, authoritative answer to this question. In the absence of certainty, many prefer to play it safe and put in the American parts. On the other hand, there appears to be no enforcement of this rule, however it applies and whatever it means in this case. The rifle is legal, the mag is legal, but according to some, it is illegal to put the mag into the rifle. Go figure! If you are caught with an illegal machine gun, PERHAPS the ATFE will take your Saiga apart and look for American parts (I doubt it), so stay away from illegal automatic weapons! I think the 922r rule was designed primarily to regulate the importation of rifles by dealers and manufacturers, not the use of removable mags by private citizens, but I am willing to be corrected. Monomonk After reading a few of the threads lower down I have a question about the legality of using my FBMG 20 round mags in my non converted Saiga .308. The only change I have made in the stock model I bought is adding a skeletal stock that I bought at a gun show made by Saiga. So the question is do I need to add more US parts to legally have the FBMG mag in my rifle? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saigaczech 9 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Play it safe, you do not want to be a test case for this group. Also it may be that cahnging out your stock, unless it was manufactured specifically for the Saiga by Izmash could be a violation of 922R as is. The reqs are not real clear but I believe that any change in configuration constitutes the assembly of a new weapon unless you are using OEM parts. It seems that BATF has been headhunting among gunsmiths for this recently if I remember right.thosee in the trade correct me if I am wrong. In any case is it worth the risk of felony conviction, forfiture of right to arms and associated legal costs to not do a full 922R conversion? Conversion costs ~$130-150 and sometime and effort, federal felony cost you your way of life. Be safe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 With a modern production rifle like the Saiga, as long as you keep the rifle in an importable (i.e. "sporting") configuration, you are legal (with the factory mag). Any thumbhole stock would be legal regardless of manufacturer, although as far as I know the one made by Saiga is the only one that will fit without doing a trigger group conversion, so the point is kind of moot there. Inserting a high capacity mag is another matter entirely, and good luck finding any definitive information as to whether a rifle so equipped is considered non-sporting for 922r purposes. Even though ATF doesn't seem to be enforcing these regs on individual owners, for most of us it just isn't worth the risk, so we play the US parts game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
teknojunge 0 Posted December 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Thanks for the replies. This seems to be a curious example of the law of unintended consequences. The stock I replaced the sporting stock with is made by Saiga manufacturer and will fit on with out any modifications. I am happy with my rifle and really did not want to get into changing it around too much. I haven't done any gunsmithing in the past and don't even own a Dremel but I do have a small drill press. Does anyone know of someone in Georgia who can do the conversion? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fossten 1 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Thanks for the replies. This seems to be a curious example of the law of unintended consequences. The stock I replaced the sporting stock with is made by Saiga manufacturer and will fit on with out any modifications. I am happy with my rifle and really did not want to get into changing it around too much. I haven't done any gunsmithing in the past and don't even own a Dremel but I do have a small drill press. Does anyone know of someone in Georgia who can do the conversion? Do it yourself, it's simple, ESPECIALLY if you have a drill press, something I wish I'd had when I converted mine. And you can buy a dremel for $25. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wally 2 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Tekno call West Georgia Armory 706-885-2058 after 5pm, in Franklin Ga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Tekno call West Georgia Armory 706-885-2058 after 5pm, in Franklin Ga. I met up with John C at the show got some good parts from him. give him a call Tekno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Squib 0 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) Why doesn't one of the ATF people who lurk here give us all a definitive answer or practical interpretation on 922r? I'm sure they're here or have been or are here from time to time. If people are wanting to be law abiding, help them guys. We pay your salaries - the least you could do is help us, right? Or do you really want people accidentally non-compliant? Put out an official statement on this so we'd feel better knowing we're following your laws. Edited December 31, 2007 by Squib Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Why doesn't one of the ATF people who lurk here give us all a definitive answer or practical interpretation on 922r? A. You are assuming that they understand the rules any better than we do. B. If the rules are clarified, it will be more difficult for them to be used against you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Does anyone know of someone in Georgia who can do the conversion? Do it yourself, it's simple, ESPECIALLY if you have a drill press, something I wish I'd had when I converted mine. And you can buy a dremel for $25. I have a drill press, and didn't find any use for it on the conversion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monomonk 0 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I assume I am not alone in realizing that all of this stuff is absurd. Why should the American government care whether a muzzle device or trigger was made in the U.S. or Russia? The rifle looks the same and fires the same, yes, yes? If the rifle is "evil" and should not be privately owned, what difference does it make where some of the parts came from? I suppose the only result is to force gun owners to buy parts from American companies, an indirect government subsidy to U.S. business. Monomonk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
teknojunge 0 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) Tekno call West Georgia Armory 706-885-2058 after 5pm, in Franklin Ga. Joker, Right now I haven't made up my mind if I want to convert my 308 or not. I had planned on not making anymore changes to it to keep it stock in case the new incoming administration and congress decide to change the laws. Here is what it looks like now. Edited January 1, 2008 by Teknojunge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zoojelly 0 Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 922 applies to those selling imported guns; People make a living selling conversions, Thanks Guys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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