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Who reloads for their Saiga .223

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Who reloads .223s specifically for their Saiga?

My best groups have been 2.5" so far with 50gr v-maxs, 55 Winch FMJs and 50 gr Midway's Dogtown bullets.

I think this gun should be able to shoot easily under 2".

Who has some good recipes.

 

I saw a post from Brin from a year or so ago, where he got a 1" group using 3031 & 60 gr vmax, so I will give that a try.

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Two weeks ago at the range a guy was getting pretty nice groups out of a stock Siaga at 100 yds. He reloads and stated that the 62 gr HP bullets gave far better results on target than the 55's.

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Evening Blackdog,

 

I reload for my Saiga 223, and I've had good result so far. I'm using a 50 gr hp by Remington and a 55 gr PSP by Remington. Both seem to do satisfactory behind 25.0 gr of IMR4064. Also, I've reloaded the same loads in metal casing with fair to middling results. At 25 yards, I can cover the group with a dime. However, at 50yds it opens up a little bit, but I can still keep all shot within a 11/2 circle. At 100 yards the group is about 2.50 inches. I'm only using mojo iron sights, which work really well. Soon I hope to add optics.

 

I shot some V-Max bullets, but they did not perform well in my rifle. Sierra bullets did equally as well as Remington. I shot a few 46gr Winchester bullets, but I had mixed results. I've got to to do some additional testing of this bullet.

 

The only exception with Sierra bullets was the 77gr which shot okay but about 4 inches low. I think I'll try a 62 gain sierra bullet in the near future. I'll give you some fedback.

 

The problem I had with metal cases was due to the fact that I did not expand the case throat slightly before seating the bullet. I had some tearing of the jacket which affected accuracy. The second batch was perfect after I opened the throat about .0002. - .0003. I had no tearing of the jacket and the crimp was really tight. I've only shot five of the new rounds, but they seem to be promising.

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Well, my IMR 3031 and 60gr v-max experiment failed horribly. I got a few 6"+ groups. All over the paper.

I also tried some M855 ammo (62 gr) and that wasn't too good either.

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Hey Blackdog,

 

I can empathize with you concerning the V-Max bullets, since I've shot 50 gr. and 55 gr. without any success. They were all over the paper; so, I've not bought anymore V-Max bullets. Of lately, I've not had any time for shooting, but I hope to this coming weekend. By the way, the V-Max bullets failed to shoot well in my handi rifle too.

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Speaking of reloading.....not to steal the thread, and the answer to this is probably out there somewhere. But anyway, I've enjoyed my .308 saiga so much, that I'm thinking about buying a .223. I've got a lot of brass lying around and was wondering if the .223 dings the cases very much (as does the .308 version)? Thanks

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Speaking of reloading.....not to steal the thread, and the answer to this is probably out there somewhere. But anyway, I've enjoyed my .308 saiga so much, that I'm thinking about buying a .223. I've got a lot of brass lying around and was wondering if the .223 dings the cases very much (as does the .308 version)? Thanks

 

Probably (never seen what it does to a .308), but there is a cheap, easy fix!

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=158002

 

Bill

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Speaking of reloading.....not to steal the thread, and the answer to this is probably out there somewhere. But anyway, I've enjoyed my .308 saiga so much, that I'm thinking about buying a .223. I've got a lot of brass lying around and was wondering if the .223 dings the cases very much (as does the .308 version)? Thanks

 

Probably (never seen what it does to a .308), but there is a cheap, easy fix!

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=158002

 

Bill

 

Hey Shooter 12,

 

My Saiga 223 beats the living daylights outta the brass. All it's good for is the round file. I'll probably shoot wollf steel cases most of the time because I can manage to salvage 40% of the steel cases and only about 5% of the brass. For some odd reason the case is not dented if it's ejected to the rear. I cannot explain that. By the way, the wolf steel cases shoot just as accurate as the brass. The first batch had some torn jackets, so I started opening the mouth of the case about .0003 with my universal expander die; now, they work like a charm. Also, I lightened up on the crimp too. I mic and sort all my steel cases to assure exact oal. The variance is usually .0005 or less.

 

I've seen 308 brass dented by a Saiga AK rifle, and it's not nearly as bad as the 223. IMHO. It was military brass, so the thicker wall probably helped. Personally, I think you could reload the dented 308 brass, but I'd never try to reload the 223. Your accuracy would drop like a rock.

 

Black Dog,

 

I shot some yesterday in terrible weather. It was colder than a witch's tit with wind gusting 20-25 miles an hour; yet, I was able to hold some decent groups out to 75 yards. At 25 yards, I could hold a near clover leaf group. Two bullet holes touched and one was about 2/16 out. At 50 yards, I kept 5 shots in a 1 3/4 group. At 75 yards, I kept 5 shots in a 2 1/2 inch group. At 100 yards, I kept 5 shots on a 8x11 paper. The target was moving too much by the wind at that distance. I was shooting with mojo sights. They really help because the AK front and rear sights are too close together, so the slightest movement of the sight left or right makes a big difference. With the peep sight, it's easier to stay at center. When I buy some optics, I have no doubts that I'll be able to shoot under 2 inches at 100 yards.

 

The Saiga 223 accuracy has really impressed me. I shot an AK 7.62x39, and I couldn't hit the damn 8x11 target at 25 yards. It had standard AK sights which really sucked. LOL

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Who reloads .223s specifically for their Saiga?

My best groups have been 2.5" so far with 50gr v-maxs, 55 Winch FMJs and 50 gr Midway's Dogtown bullets.

I think this gun should be able to shoot easily under 2".

Who has some good recipes.

 

I saw a post from Brin from a year or so ago, where he got a 1" group using 3031 & 60 gr vmax, so I will give that a try.

When I first got my 223 the only ammo I had was some for my Handi rifle. It was a 40gr.moly Vmax with 26.5 grs of H 335. It shoots the first 2 touching at 100 yds.and the third shot will be at 4 o clock a 1/2" away.I put 3 more rds in the clip,and got the same exact group again. I shot 4 groups like this and they were exactly the same every time,so whats the deal with the third flyer?I'm using a target 6X24 scope on the 223 and my 308 and they shoot the same group. I load the 308 with 125 gr.BT's and a max load of W748,and the first 2 are 1/4" apart,with the 3rd shot 1/2" away at 4 o'clock. Anyone else have this problem? Digger

Edited by Digger

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Who reloads .223s specifically for their Saiga?

My best groups have been 2.5" so far with 50gr v-maxs, 55 Winch FMJs and 50 gr Midway's Dogtown bullets.

I think this gun should be able to shoot easily under 2".

Who has some good recipes.

 

I saw a post from Brin from a year or so ago, where he got a 1" group using 3031 & 60 gr vmax, so I will give that a try.

When I first got my 223 the only ammo I had was some for my Handi rifle. It was a 40gr.moly Vmax with 26.5 grs of H 335. It shoots the first 2 touching at 100 yds.and the third shot will be at 4 o clock a 1/2" away.I put 3 more rds in the clip,and got the same exact group again. I shot 4 groups like this and they were exactly the same every time,so whats the deal with the third flyer?I'm using a target 6X24 scope on the 223 and my 308 and they shoot the same group. I load the 308 with 125 gr.BT's and a max load of W748,and the first 2 are 1/4" apart,with the 3rd shot 1/2" away at 4 o'clock. Anyone else have this problem? Digger

 

Morning Digger,

 

I had a similar experience with my Saiga 223 at 25 yards. I had two bullets touching with the third 2/16 off between 3 and 4 o'clock. Until I put optics on my rifle, I cannot say much about 100 yards because I can't see that well with iron sights at 100 yards. When I buy some new glasses the whole world will look different. LOL Is the 6X24 scope a POSP? I'm considering a Kalinka POSP 8x42 with independent focus and a 400 meter range finder. Anybody know anything about these scopes? I'm seriously thinking of adding MilDot, too, which'll put the price in the range of $200.00.

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Who reloads .223s specifically for their Saiga?

My best groups have been 2.5" so far with 50gr v-maxs, 55 Winch FMJs and 50 gr Midway's Dogtown bullets.

I think this gun should be able to shoot easily under 2".

Who has some good recipes.

 

I saw a post from Brin from a year or so ago, where he got a 1" group using 3031 & 60 gr vmax, so I will give that a try.

When I first got my 223 the only ammo I had was some for my Handi rifle. It was a 40gr.moly Vmax with 26.5 grs of H 335. It shoots the first 2 touching at 100 yds.and the third shot will be at 4 o clock a 1/2" away.I put 3 more rds in the clip,and got the same exact group again. I shot 4 groups like this and they were exactly the same every time,so whats the deal with the third flyer?I'm using a target 6X24 scope on the 223 and my 308 and they shoot the same group. I load the 308 with 125 gr.BT's and a max load of W748,and the first 2 are 1/4" apart,with the 3rd shot 1/2" away at 4 o'clock. Anyone else have this problem? Digger

 

Morning Digger,

 

I had a similar experience with my Saiga 223 at 25 yards. I had two bullets touching with the third 2/16 off between 3 and 4 o'clock. Until I put optics on my rifle, I cannot say much about 100 yards because I can't see that well with iron sights at 100 yards. When I buy some new glasses the whole world will look different. LOL Is the 6X24 scope a POSP? I'm considering a Kalinka POSP 8x42 with independent focus and a 400 meter range finder. Anybody know anything about these scopes? I'm seriously thinking of adding MilDot, too, which'll put the price in the range of $200.00.

Snuffy I used a quick release mount and a 6x24x44 cheap Tasco on my 223 for testing,and I was really surprised at the accurcy of these guns. Whats weird is how after the first 2 shots they really start opening up the group. When I only load 2 or 3 rds. at a time,its a easy 300 yd P.D. gun.

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Who reloads .223s specifically for their Saiga?

My best groups have been 2.5" so far with 50gr v-maxs, 55 Winch FMJs and 50 gr Midway's Dogtown bullets.

I think this gun should be able to shoot easily under 2".

Who has some good recipes.

 

I saw a post from Brin from a year or so ago, where he got a 1" group using 3031 & 60 gr vmax, so I will give that a try.

When I first got my 223 the only ammo I had was some for my Handi rifle. It was a 40gr.moly Vmax with 26.5 grs of H 335. It shoots the first 2 touching at 100 yds.and the third shot will be at 4 o clock a 1/2" away.I put 3 more rds in the clip,and got the same exact group again. I shot 4 groups like this and they were exactly the same every time,so whats the deal with the third flyer?I'm using a target 6X24 scope on the 223 and my 308 and they shoot the same group. I load the 308 with 125 gr.BT's and a max load of W748,and the first 2 are 1/4" apart,with the 3rd shot 1/2" away at 4 o'clock. Anyone else have this problem? Digger

 

Morning Digger,

 

I had a similar experience with my Saiga 223 at 25 yards. I had two bullets touching with the third 2/16 off between 3 and 4 o'clock. Until I put optics on my rifle, I cannot say much about 100 yards because I can't see that well with iron sights at 100 yards. When I buy some new glasses the whole world will look different. LOL Is the 6X24 scope a POSP? I'm considering a Kalinka POSP 8x42 with independent focus and a 400 meter range finder. Anybody know anything about these scopes? I'm seriously thinking of adding MilDot, too, which'll put the price in the range of $200.00.

Snuffy I used a quick release mount and a 6x24x44 cheap Tasco on my 223 for testing,and I was really surprised at the accurcy of these guns. Whats weird is how after the first 2 shots they really start opening up the group. When I only load 2 or 3 rds. at a time,its a easy 300 yd P.D. gun.

 

Hey Digger,

 

Last Summer I watched a guy shoot a 17 cal handi with a tasco scope, and he was able to shoot clover leafs time after time at 50 yards. He could cover all his groups with a shirt button. If he'd of shot the handi at 75 or 100 yards, I'd have probably bought one the next week. For myself, I'll stick with my S223 with a EST AK, SAIGA, VEPR Side Mount w/ 1" Rings and a PO 8x56 Pilade Pro Rifle Scope w/ 1000m Dragunov Rangefinding Reticle. I changed my mind about buying a POSP 8X42 because I do not want a scope with a battery pack. I hope to buy the scope end of month after car and house insurance is paid. LOL

 

For reloading:

 

I trim all brass to 1.750 or I mic all steel to 1.755 + .0002;then I sort all casings by weight; next I mic all the bullets to +- .0002. Each powder charge is weighted to within +- 1/10 gr; next I seat all to an oal of 2.225. Finally, I crimp lightly. I like the 55 gr. bullet for my S-223 and a 50 gr. bullet for my handi. I'm seriously considering a 62 gr. in the near future because I'm gonna change my handi rifle to a 1/9 twist rate. Since I cannot shoot much beyond 150 yards in my neck of the woods, I'm satisfied with any group under 1 1/4 inches at 100 yards. I've tried IMR 3031, 4198, Rx7, H4895, but I still prefer IMR4064 for my 223 weapons.

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Well, my IMR 3031 and 60gr v-max experiment failed horribly. I got a few 6"+ groups. All over the paper.

I also tried some M855 ammo (62 gr) and that wasn't too good either.

 

 

Hey BlackDog,

 

I finally got some glass on my Saiga, and it's hell on wheels. Shooting at 25 yards, I had some nice clover leaf groups in a 1 inch bullseye. At 50 yds, I had 4 shots in the 1 inch circle with 5 in the 1 1/2 inch circle. At 75 yds, I had a couple flyers, but also a nice group of 8 in the 2 inch circle with 3 of 'em touching the 1 inch circle. At 100 yds, I had three flyers but none were outside the 7 inch circle with a nice 4 shot group in the 2 inch circle. Also, I shot 6 rounds in rapid fire with all shoots 3 inches above the bullseye in a 2 1/2 inch group. I think I can improve upon that with practice. The Saiga has more rise than my handi with a bull barrel. It'll hardly move when you shoot it. Also, it has a 22 inch barrel instead of a 16 inch barrel.

 

I think I'll try some 62 grain and 77 grain bullets, which should stabilize better than 50 grain and 55 grain bullets. With the 50 gr. hp I was shooting 25.2 gr. of IMR4064 and with the 55 gr. hp I was shooting 25.0 gr of IMR4064. I'm thinking of H335 for a possible powder, too.

 

The Saiga is a smooth shooting rifle with no failures to feed or eject, and I've shot approx. 200 rounds in the rifle which were all reloaded.

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Hey BlackDog,

I finally got some glass on my Saiga, and it's hell on wheels.

 

Snuffy, What power scope did you get?

I just got a 3-9 X 40 today to replace the 3-7 X 30 I had on mine.

 

I have to take back anything bad I ever said about 69gr Sierra reloads shooting like crap out of my Saiga. (at least until I tried them with IMR 3031)

I screwed up some 69 gr Sierra reloads I was making for my mini with IMR 3031. I messed up while I was sizing the brass, I didn't set the die right and I made about 100 reloads and the cases were too big. They would only slide into my mini chamber about 5/8 of the way, that was it. Then my bullet puller cracked apart and I had about 50 of them left.

Finally a light bulb went off and I dropped one in the Saiga chamber and it went in the whole way!

I am kind of amazed at the difference in the chamber sizes.

So I took those 69s to the club and they shot a whole bunch of 3" groups consistently at 100 yds. I think with some tweaking of the powder amount, I should be able to get some better groups.

 

Now, if i could just get out of bed early enough to take care of those coyotes.

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Snuffy, What power scope did you get?

I just got a 3-9 X 40 today to replace the 3-7 X 30 I had on mine.

 

 

Evening Blackdog,

 

The scope came off of my handi 223, which is a 4x12x40 Swif Premier. I wanted to make sure the rifle would shoot before I paid $400.00 for a Nikon Monarch Mil Dot scope.

 

I had a similar fckup with my 45-70, and I couldn't believe that I'd made such a simple reloading mistake. Now, I have a set of steps for reloading that I'll not deviate from come hell or high water. That keeps me from losing fingers and eyeballs...lol. By the way, I use IMR3031 in my 45-70. It'll punish on both ends...lol

 

Also, I swapped out the mounting bracket; so now, I can use optics or iron sights. The new Pro Mag bracket works like a charm, and It has a better finish than the New Generation mounting bracket that cost $38.00. It's rock solid which is not bad for $17.00 thru Graf & Sons. I'll catch ya in the later! Keep your powder dry! And good shooting!

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Who reloads .223s specifically for their Saiga?

My best groups have been 2.5" so far with 50gr v-maxs, 55 Winch FMJs and 50 gr Midway's Dogtown bullets.

I think this gun should be able to shoot easily under 2".

Who has some good recipes.

 

I saw a post from Brin from a year or so ago, where he got a 1" group using 3031 & 60 gr vmax, so I will give that a try.

 

I use WCC844 23.5 gr Hornady 55gr FMJ bullet with wolf primers the WCC844 is from pat's reloading Wolf primers.

They Krono at 2990 FPS remember when you reload not to go to hot as there is no crimp on primer pocketsand you will blow primers.

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I use WCC844 23.5 gr Hornady 55gr FMJ bullet with wolf primers the WCC844 is from pat's reloading Wolf primers.

They Krono at 2990 FPS remember when you reload not to go to hot as there is no crimp on primer pocketsand you will blow primers.

 

Hi Frank,

 

WCC844 is like/equivalent to H335. You can use H335 reloading data for WCC844. However, each lot (jug of WCC844) has the potential to vary. If I were using WCC844, I'd do test loads 10% below my standard load until I became familiar with a new lot of powder.

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> when you reload not to go to hot as there is no crimp on primer pocketsand you will blow primers.

>

 

 

Morning Frank,

 

Good advice...also, you run the risk of slam firing as well as chamber pressure issues. I thought I'd list a link by accurateshooter.com for Sierra (pdf) reloading data for bolt guns and AR15 style semi-auto rifles, becaue they're not the same. You'll find two buttons in the right margin for the pdf download:

 

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

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Lake City 55gr, 23.8gr of WCC844 and wolf primers chronos at 340fps. I have 11degree target crown on my 223 and do full resize no crimp so I get no run out of bullet.

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