conversion question from rookie saiga owner

[BlueH20 0]

Hi guys. Just got my Saiga .410. I hope this isn't a stupid question, but how difficult is it convert to a pistol grip and rifle stock. Do you have to be a gunsmith or can a layman take a crack it. Thank you for any info.

[Aethelbert 1]

Not a stupid question, at all. Converting a Saiga .410 to PG configuration isn't all that difficult. Helps if you have: (a) a few basic tools such as a dremel tool; and, ( a certain amount of mechanical skill. (I won't attempt the conversion because I am Mr. Fumble-Thumbs, himself.)

 

I understand that K-Var may be a good source of some parts, especially the shoulder stock and pistol grip.

 

Take a gander through some of the past topics on this board. You'll find a wealth of information there from people who either have done it or are in the midst of doing it.

Edited November 15, 2004 by Aethelbert

[Saiga20InMyHome 0]

Blueh20~

 

If you are unsure whether or not to mess with altering your saiga receiver, and you want a pistol grip, you can do what I did. I had a guy custom manufacture a rear pistol grip and a forend pistol grip for my saiga 20. Not only did he fit the dimensions of the hardware to a "T", but he was able to fine-tune it to the size and shape of my hands and the natural grip I take. I didn't have to make any adjustments at all to my saiga, and the forend pistol grip allowed me to mount a laser sight on the side bracket so my hand wouldnt disrupt the path of the laser...Turned out pretty sweet and comfortable to shoot as well...And I'm not done tricking it out yet! But Aethelbert has a point...There are plenty of threads in all sections on this and other topics! Good luck and happy hunting! Hope this helped!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Blueh20~

 

If you are unsure whether or not to mess with altering your saiga receiver, and you want a pistol grip, you can do what I did. I had a guy custom manufacture a rear pistol grip and a forend pistol grip for my saiga 20.

Is that legal without changing out any more parts for U.S. ones? I wonder because I have a Tapco folder that I have altered to fit mine and could easily add a pistol grip( also U.S.) without changing the fcg configuration at all.

[Saiga20InMyHome 0]

As long as you have 5 US made parts (besides the PG), you can have a custom grip put on. Technically, the grips are US made, but the BATF doesn't care about "technicallys." I wouldn't think there would be a problem putting on a folder as long as you have 5 US made parts.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Are there any U.S. made parts avail. for the 410 besides the trigger group? Gas pistons, handguards, etc.? I noticed that "trigger housings" are on the list of parts. What does that mean? Is that the same as the trigger guard? I have an extra Tapco G2 trigger group. Could I just replace the hammer and disconnector and not have to move the whole thing forward? Here's what I'm thinking about. If I replaced those two trigger parts, put on my Tapco folding stock, and pistol grip, that's 4. I just need one more part that's U.S. What else is there? Any ideas welcome and appreciated.

[SaigaShooter 0]

this was posted some time ago by USMC_LB.

It petains to 922® adding "evil" features to an imported weapon.

 

Saigas are imported right now into this country in a "sporting configuration".

 

Since they meet the "sporting purposes" clause they are ok to import. There are NO parts in the Saiga that are US made.

 

The parts count on those shotguns is 13 out of a possible 20.

 

Here is a the BATFs list of the possible 20:

 

(1) Receiver

(2) Barrels

(3) Barrel extensions

(4) Mounting blocks, trunion

(5) Muzzle attachments

(6) Bolts

(7) Bolt carriers

(8) Operating rods

(9) Gas pistons

(10) Trigger housings

(11) Triggers

(12) Hammers

(13) Sears

(14) Disconnectors

(15) Buttstock

(16) Pistol grips

(17) Forearms, handguards

(18) Magazine bodies

(19) Followers

(20)Floorplates

 

I found a website that has a letter from the BATF dated 1997 that has the parts count for several models of semi-auto firearms. One of the last styles listed is the Saiga shotgun.

 

Here is the link: Saiga shotgun parts count from the BATF

 

The letter states that the parts count is 13.

 

BUT some Saiga shotguns come with REMOVABLE chokes which would be considered another imported part [ i.e. (5) muzzle attachment ].

 

If you have a removable choke on your Saiga then your parts count is 14.

 

The law ( 922r ) states that you cannot assemble a firearm from imported parts unless you use 10 or less imported parts.

 

This means, on a Saiga that has a removable choke we will need to replace 4 of the Russian parts with parts made here in the United States.

 

Like for instance, we can currently purchase:

 

1) Hammer

2) Disconnect

3) Trigger

4) Buttstock

 

By installing these items we are now in compliance with the 1989 import ban specifically called 922r.

 

Now on to the Pistol Grip.

 

Saigas imported for the civilian market are not equipped with a pistol grip, hence they are not listed in the parts count.

 

If you want to perform the PG conversion you will need to install a US made Pistol Grip and not a Russian, Romanian, etc.

 

If you added a Russian PG you would have increased your parts count to 11. This would put you into violation of 922r.

 

If you use a US made pistol grip then it does not count against your imported parts count and you are still in compliance.

 

Here is the final parts count for a Saiga shotgun with a removable choke and a pistol grip:

 

(1) Receiver-----------------------------------------Russian

(2) Barrels-------------------------------------------Russian

(3) Barrel extensions >>>DOES NOT EXIST ON SAIGA<

(4) Mounting blocks, trunion >DOES NOT EXIST ON SAIGA<

(5) Muzzle attachments-----------------------------Russian

(6) Bolts----------------------------------------------Russian

(7) Bolt carriers--------------------------------------Russian

(8) Operating rods >>>>>>>DOES NOT EXIST ON SAIGA<

(9) Gas pistons---------------------------------------Russian

(10) Trigger housings >>>>>DOES NOT EXIST ON SAIGA<

(11) Triggers==================== US COMPLIANT

(12) Hammers=================== US COMPLIANT

(13) Sears >>>>>>>>>>>>DOES NOT EXIST ON SAIGA<

(14) Disconnectors================ US COMPLIANT

(15) Buttstock=================== US COMPLIANT

(16) Pistol grips================== US COMPLIANT

(17) Forearms, handguards----------------------------Russian

(18) Magazine bodies-----------------------------------Russian

(19) Followers-------------------------------------------Russian

(20)Floorplates -----------------------------------------Russian

 

If you install this amount of US parts your shotgun will be considered "domestic" per BATFs instruction.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Thanks SS that is helpful. But I'm still not clear on a couple of things. Since the Saiga was not imported with a PG or a thumbhole stock(like the Mak 90), then if I remove the Russian stock and replace with a U.S. stock and PG, does that only count as one part towards compliance? Is this why Saiga20 said PG technically doesn't count?

Also my 410 has some kind of device threaded on the outside of the barrel that looks more like a brake or flash hider than a choke. It has holes around the outside. Is this considered to be a choke therefore i need one extra compliance part?

Damn these stupid laws are confusing!! Somebody please help!

[SaigaShooter 0]

A US pistol grip/stock counts as one part.

 

If you do indeed have a barrel extension, then you will need to get one more us part, because you have one more foreign part than you should.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

OK thanks for the info. Looks like moving the trigger assy. is the only way then untill someone comes out with mags ,gas pistons, or handguards. Time to fire up the ol' dremmel.