Opinions on the present atmosphere

[elvis christ 451]

It seems like in the last year or so there has been some seriously fervent purchasing of firearms on the part of myself and a lot of other people I know or encounter. This has led me to question the actual reasons and manner in which this taking place, if y'all follow me. At the gun show, the atmosphere is one of impending doom, which I have yet to decide whether I agree or not. For example in November, I purchased a bulk amount of ammunition based on the fact that I had heard that prices for ammo, particularly steel case 7.62 short would be rising exponentially in January. Well, it's near the middle of March now, and I haven't really noticed a significant difference. But then again, it could be a trickle down effect.

 

Similarly, I recently ran out and bought a Saiga 12, which I totally intended to purchase with my economic stimulus check, based on the impression that I may or may not be able to get one by the time Uncle Sam gets me my check. This decision was based on a conversation I had with a guy that wanted $900 for a 18" S12 with a folding stock, who told me that he had ordered 100, and only received 25, and that he may or may not get some more this summer. After I talked to him I got in touch with Nathan at MAA, and he said he would have some in in the middle of this month, but the price he quoted me was still a bit more than I wanted to pay. I ended up getting what I perceive to be a decent deal from a local guy, but was still a little more than I anticipated paying, but whatever, I've got the gun now.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is there seems to be this atmosphere permeating the gun sub-culture is that we are in the grips of some sort of impending catastrophe, and we have to do (read: purchase) everything we can while we still have the chance. Now I'm not going to sit here and say that the Democrats don't have gun control on their agenda, and that they won't get elected in the fall. But then again, one party hasn't even chosen their candidate, and the rhetoric involving gun control hasn't been too terribly strong on either side. (I say this because I am familiar with McCain's stance on gun control). I'm just starting to wonder if I'm being made to think that something horrible is about to happen and that I need to spend alot of money NOW, by the industry that stands to benefit from it, the gun manufacturers.

 

Am I reading too far into this whole thing, or do I have a legitimate point? Opinions please.

[Ruffian72 548]

Just know my bulk 10mm & 45acp suppliers wholesale costs have gone up 30 to 50% in last year. Gets past on. Found old invoice (16 months ago) for a case of .308 S. African for $145 Delivered, now over $500.00 when found. Wolf 7.62 x 39 has doubled and at times long back order status. DSA Custom Tactical Fn Fal 45 day/ $1450, now at least 4 months and over $1800. Just deal with reputable people. Don't see raw material costs or customer demand going down. Even see persons who would not usually purchase buying.

[getitat 609]

hello

And, as I've posted recently, the price for Wolf 12 gauge slugs has spiked almost instantly from $125/case to $180-$190/case. That's not an isolated dealer, that's everybody that I know of.

And if you shoot .308 much, you'll certainly be seeing the logic behind handloading. Factory loaded .308 is about where .50 cal. factory ammo was priced about 3 years ago. Although, .308 loading components add-up to approximately what loaded .308 was about 3 years ago...

 

Although I personally foresee a push to deny us the "privelege" of purchasing ammo to feed our guns that we "rightfully" possess, I would not discount the need to be prepared with weapons, ammo, and any other needed supplies and provisions as you see fit.

There is overwhelming agreement that if the Fascist Socialists (Dem's) are successful, there attempts to placate and negotiate with the Jihadists will likely be interpreted as "weakness" and an invitation to attack us domestically.

While we have certainly "wised-up" as victims since 911, it would be foolish to not assume that the Jihadists have not as well. One can not be "too-prepared..."

 

Remember Katrina? Develop an "Anti-Roofie" attitude!

 

JMHO...

 

guido2 in Houston

[rocinante 100]

Concerning the S12 if I didn't have one I would snatch one up on simple supply and demand issues. I also think ammo prices are rising on mostly simple economic reasons of rising raw material cost, weakening dollar, and demand due to war.

 

I bought my first gun in November 2006 mainly with the motivation of target shooting and something to get me out of the house. Secondary motivation was self defense and the Katrina situation definitely affected that. That drove home it is better to have a gun because you just might NEED ONE. People in need will take from the weak and defenseless. Human nature 101. It was a used S&W 915 15 round capacity 9 mm. It is pretty accurate and feeds anything I put in it.

 

Once I started shooting I got the gun bug really bad. I want one of everything. Well one in each different category. So now I am motivated more by want than need. To date I am up to 12 and I have at least 8 more on my wish list. Nothing super collectible just fun and mostly practical. I also am motivated because I realized I have absolutely nothing material of any intrinsic value to pass to my sons. All I have of my father is a freshman beanie, a set of drafting tools, and a landscaping book. We will shoot these firearms together and hopefully they will shoot them after I am gone and have good memory links through them to the old man. I can't think of any objects that are as durable and alive than firearms.

 

Political motivations are not that strong to me. I am more interested in what happens in the SCOTUS Heller case than any mischief gun grabbers can enable especially since I don't see me leaving Georgia. All in all America seems to be like me, a lot more favorably gun conscious and understanding their utility. The best the antis can do at the moment is harassment through b.s. like micro stamping and ammo serialization which neither will fly here and I doubt will fly through Congress. Even in the states where they hold sway there is no guarantee their voters will not wake up and demand change. Sure for the sellers it is a VERY useful tool to exploit fear as a motivator to buyers.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Interesting question and interesting responses. Alexander Fraser Tyler wrote:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can exist only until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse (defined as a liberal gift) out of the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship."

 

It appears to me that we are at a stage that is close to 50% or more wanting freebies from the government (stolen from the "evil coporations" which is really those of us that work) and 50% trying to drag the wagon with these neer do wells sitting in it. They are going to obviously vote in the person who promises them the most stolen largesse which is the democratic (socialist) party. The democrats are not interested in being statesmen, they are only interested in power and willl attempt to achieve it regardless of method. The republicans are not much better (lessor of two evils).

 

This being the case you can count on somebody being voted in by the ever increasing # of people (think lazy, illegal crimigrant, drug addict, fiscally irresponsible, student, etc.) who will want to take away your money to give to someone else and will FEAR you and not want you to have the ability to resist. We are at the end stages of what historically happens IMO. The people fear the government instead of the goverment fearing the people as it should be. The educational system and the media and the bureaucracy or government are all against your freedom and Constitutional rights. What you choose to do about it is your business. IMO your first priority should be to feed your family and provide your children with an education and good parenting leading to an understanding of their place in the universe under God's order. Beyond that I believe that it is your responsibility to provide them with protection from the coming state of disorder in the US. This disorder may come from many areas; i.e. - illegals, govt. sanctions, natural disaster, change of order in our society, etc.

 

Prices continue to go up as has been stated for multiple reasons on ammo and weapons. Pre-ban H&K,Steyr and other "assaulty style" weapons are through the roof, pre-ban legal machine guns have also gone ballistic with their prices (think $15K - $85K) due to supply and demand. Todays $400 Saiga will cost what in 10 years if they haven't been sold in 9 and there will never be any more imported? I can't answer that but you should be able to imagine. I have watched this situation grow worse every year since the sixties and I really don't see any sign of it improving. In the early sixties you could order a Walther P-38 for $30.00 or a Govt. Issue 1911a1 for $45.00 through the mail with no FFL. No more. I bought a M1 Carbine for $65.00 in 1970, what are they now? You can claim inflation to some degree but I know there is more at work here IMO.

 

Look at you hand and place your bet. Good luck to us all.

 

1911

Edited March 8, 2008 by 1911

[elvis christ 451]

Well, as far as the prices of the actual guns are concerned, aside from full-auto class 3 guns, it seems to me like this is the best it's ever been. I used to hear about back in the day (early 80's) when you could get AK's for about $200. If you think about it, the fact that you can get a saiga 7.62 for less than $300, or hell, pretty much any AK for less than $600, is pretty decent, considering and factoring in inflation.

 

I'm not debating the fact that ammunition is definitely getting more expensive, but the reasons for this I can't pinpoint. It seems like it's almost as expensive to load your own ammo as it is to buy it, but then again, I haven't really looked that deep into self loading and what not. I really need to though.

 

Another funny thing that I smile about is the fact that we have all these AK "pistols" floating around, which is going to totally wrench any kind of legislation regarding so-called "assault rifles." Just think about the whole idea of these sporter rifles being imported. "Nah, it's not an assault rifle, it doesn't have a pistol grip and it comes with a 5 (or 10) round magazine." Think about the fact that an AK pistol is classified as a pistol, that's golden. Before the AWB of 1994, as far as I know, there were no AK pistols. The implementation of that legislation made people hungry for things that they weren't allowed to have, and as a result there is another loophole for lawmakers to contend with.

 

I don't know what I'm really getting at, at this point, but I do feel like I am being compelled by an external influence to purchase as many guns as I possibly can, under the impression that I will not be able to get them in a couple of years. Whether or not this is true, I don't know.

 

I guess you're better safe than sorry.