Bull Pup Question

[Wolverine 10,360]

Anyone know about the legal status of the Bull Pup? I note K-Var offers a conversion kit and one of the Posters recently showed his custom made Bull Pup. I understand the BP is 10" shorter than conventional Saiga'a or AK's. I thought the rifle has to be at least 26" overall it is reclassed as a pistol and becomes subject to regulation as such. For instance, in MI you have to have a purchase permit to aquire one and a "safety inspection" by the local PD after purchase so that it is registered with the State.

 

What is the deal with the Bull Pup? Anyone have experience with one and what do you think about handling, etc. ?

 

Wolverine

[IndyArms 10,186]

I have never shot one, but from what I have read about them, they are supposed to be the cats ass.

The balance point is said to be MUCH better, and you get increased barrel length in an overall shorter package. Although from the looks of that picture... it looks like it would be VERY back-end heavy... specially with a FULL 30 rounder tucked on there..

 

Personally... I think they look COOL AS ALL HELL!!! ESPECIALLY that conversion for the AK from K-var...

 

Legal or not??? no idea.. that is probably a state by state thing...but I have NEVER heard of them being reclassified as a pistol.

Edited January 4, 2005 by IndyArms

[Smiley_Guy 2]

at least 26" overall with at least a 16" barrel and a sholder stock... that's a rifle.

 

I heard that the Norinco ones are good but the kits suck. Anyone here ever seen one of the kits???

[KaceCoyote 0]

Yeah I've fired one before. A friend converted a cheap WASR into the above bullpup. Now first and foremost, the WASR wasnt bad. It was just cheap. Gritty trigger, but not a ton've creep. Most of the parts in the kit required major fitting and some custom fabrication of a few odds and ends. The balance was horrific, Its -very- butt heavy and during firing it jarred off my shoulder and tried to swing down under me more than once. The trigger pull is a very crude bent section of what felt like aluminum. The result was a horribly spongey trigger that, while no longer gritty had little feel to it.

 

It took him all of one afternoon to decide to return to the normal configuration. The sights were very uncomfortable to use and were far too close to my face to allow me to focus quickly and I'm a young 20 year old guy with good eyes. My Vepr danced circles around this thing in almost everything we tried, searching desperately for a justification to keep it. I wouldnt suggest this at all. Unless K-var has in the last year, significantly redesigned this kit I'd say it renders the entire AK useless. The Magazine change was the worst part of the whole ordeal, think it can occasionally be tricky to rock the magazine in quickly when your charging poppers as it is? Try doing it on a VERY cramped rifle that doesnt want to do anything but hang vertically and shoot everywhere but where you want it. The end results are as follows.

 

Cheap WASR shot 2.5" groups with the cheap wolf, 100% factory.

Wasr converted shot a best of 6" group with a variety of ammunition from Wolf, Barnaul to Winchester white box.

 

 

I wouldnt suggest this horror to anyone. While an interesting concept that has a good bit of room to become something worthwhile and indeed, fully neato-torpedo in its current level of development its far from that. Anyone tried to figure out a Norinco 86S parts kit yet?

[brian33x51 1]

I got my kit from somebody unused and also stuck it on a WASR. As the above poster it took lots of fitting and grinding to get the kit to fit.

 

As the above poster, my experience hasn't been that great. The kit has made the rifle not as reliable, I have problems with it going "bang" on the first trigger pull sometimes, fixed by pulling the trigger again.

 

I actually do like the balance of the weapon in bullpup and I think the sights are adequate for close range work. I don't like 30rder's with the bullpup, I think 20's would be better.

 

As for using a bullpup in combat...I've heard that it's very difficult to fire these prone. I can definitely see that.. I can also easily see teeth flying around if someone tries to fire this left handed. It wouldn't be pretty.

 

My advice: don't take a nice saiga and put it into a bullpup kit. Find something trashly like a cheap WASR if you want to do it.

 

I'll probably keep mine in the kit and fiddle some with the trigger to try to get it to be more reliable.

[Wolverine 10,360]

Guys,

 

Thanks for the input. I am a lefty and need all my teeth when I smile or chew. I have a WASR-10 and two 7.62, one of which I have converted. I think I'll leave it at that although I am buying new furniture for the conversion. I want to ditch the Tapco folder for the same reason as above...... I like my teeth. The folder hinge block will brea my nose, cheek bone or knock out my gold filled teeth during rapid fire recoil. I am going to try the ACE stuff.

 

Wolverine

[BlenderWizard 12]

I definitely don't think I'd want to fire any bullpup from my left shoulder. I think it would be ejecting hot fast brass into your face.

[brian33x51 1]

I definitely don't think I'd want to fire any bullpup from my left shoulder.  I think it would be ejecting hot fast brass into your face.

I'm not sure about your AK's but mine all blow their cases about 15 feet directly to the left, maybe even slightly forward. I always have to be careful at the "informal ranges".

 

I keep on forgetting and end up peppering folks with hot brass.

 

My AR-180b on the other hand throws the brass straight back, usually right into my trunk.

Edited January 7, 2005 by brian33x51

[Smiley_Guy 2]

Hmm... Mine only throws brass to the left if you're facing it, which is not a good idea at all!

Edited January 7, 2005 by Smiley_Guy

[Jofus 0]

LMAO Smiley! Mine tosses the brass right at a 45 degree angle, and frickin far too!