Ol'smokie 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Already have a S-12, S-20, and now am the proud owner of a .410 Saiga. Gun signed off by Izhmash in 2001. Screw on chokes. One looks "small" (tapered) and one looks "larger". For now I am assuming that the small one is "full" and the larger one is "mod" or "mod cyl", or? Also the gas port end cap is a threaded screw cap (w/ slot) without any port settings or numbers, is anyone familliar with this configuration? Other than that, this little baby looks really sweet! Always amazed at these puppys Smokes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ol'smokie 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Forgot to ask: Hammer assembly is different that the 12 or 20, looks like a spring loaded thing (one piece), did not want to mess with it in fear of not being able to get it back together. Oil on this new gun was thick but not a lot of it, so I just used Hoppes #9 and applied some Outers oil to everything, but did not take the firing pin assy. apart for now. Any opinions or instructions for the bolt/assy.? (.410 of course) Thanks for the forum, Smokes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 (edited) The "SMALL" choke, if it looks like a small threaded NON TAPERED cylinder, is not a choke at all, its merely a THREAD PROTECTOR... the other is either an Improved Cylinder, or Full... depending on what number is on it... The thread protector is the best thing to use when shooting slugs... I am almost positive the "number 1" is the Improved Cylinder choke, and the Number 3, is the Full.... I was not able to get a "modified" choke from EAA back when I got these... In regards to the gas port cap... I would recommend unscrewing it all the way, making sure to clean the SHORT piston inside the front gas cylinder, and NOTE which side has the angled cutaway... so that when you reassemble, you will know how far to turn it out from snug-tight... so that you can adjust the amount of gas-thru-the gas tube. ( for magnum or light loads) Edited January 19, 2005 by IndyArms Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ol'smokie 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 (edited) Thanks, IndyArms. The "tapered" one has a stamped inscription on one of the flat facets "1 o 3" the o has an underbar under it, and the whole number may be preceded by a forward slash, unless it's a scratch........I'm sure you are right about the "thread protector", with that in place it would be a cyl? or full cyl? perhaps? And I do shoot slugs with my shottys......... thanks again, Smokes Edited January 19, 2005 by Ol'smokie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Smokie your's is exactly like mine. The hammer assy is the same as any ol AK. No problem to take out and put back. The axis pin retainer spring however is rolled around the factory trigger axis pin if I remember right so to take it out you would have to drill and remove that pin or use a screwdriver and a hook tool to relieve tension to get the two forward pins out. That disconnector assy is basically just a regular AK set with the trigger cut off. Does that "tapered choke" on yours have small holes all around the side? If so I have the same one and I too would like to know what it's best used for. There are some closeup pics of it in the Conversion Pics thread. I have been shooting slugs and shot through it without any problems though. Mine has no numbers or markings of any kind. I asked EAA about it several times but as usual they were no help. But my gun didn't come from them anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ol'smokie 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Thanks, Cobra 76 two My "tapered" choke (the one with the numbers on it) is solid all the way around. My local smithy has closed down, so I should find myself a bore micrometer and measure the diameter of the end of the taper and compare it to the inside of the barrel where the threads end without any choke on. Also forgot to look at the side of the reciever for a marking for choke like my 12 and 20 (at work now). Here is a grab from the manual. If the numbers on the tapered screw-on match, 3 would be full (with it attached), and with just the "thread protector" on, it would be improved cyl, but who knows...crazy Russkies Smokes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 R&R the firing pin, and clean the firingpin channel-the wifes had the heavy oil/light grease and there was enough in there to cause trouble (especially on a cold day). A little light oil and you should be good to go. No oil on gas piston-a little antiseeze on the threaded plug and the barell threads. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ol'smokie 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Thanks G O B and all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 The Thread protector has ZERO compression of the shot pattern... it is TRULY ...CYLINDER BORE size.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ol'smokie 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 IndyArms: Thanks, that's good news for slug shooters! My .410 = 19" bbl Smokes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aethelbert 1 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 (edited) Thanks, IndyArms. The "tapered" one has a stamped inscription on one of the flat facets "1 o 3" the o has an underbar under it, and the whole number may be preceded by a forward slash, unless it's a scratch........I'm sure you are right about the "thread protector", with that in place it would be a cyl? or full cyl? perhaps? . . . Smokes Smokes, The "1" which "may be preceded by a forward slash" is a mis-stamp of "No 3" with an underline under the letter "o" as that would be one European way of expressing the number -- they mis-spaced the stamp a little to the left so all you get of the "N" is the diagonal line and the right-hand vertical leg of that letter. Your thread got me to wondering what the heck I have on the business end of my .410 which is "No 1" -- the thread protector, alias the improved cylinder choke. I can look into it and see the muzzle of the barrel clearly. The nice long tapered choke -- No 3 -- would seem to be the full choke. Edited January 20, 2005 by Aethelbert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 ol' smokie - Just noticed that you have the same regulator as the wifes,no 1-2 setting. Does your reciever also have stamped " .410 3" magnum " ? I don't think these will shoot the short shells or light loads. No problem here as momma only wants to use 3" OO or slugs. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ol'smokie 0 Posted January 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 (edited) Aethelbert:............ That makes a ton of sense..... I have seen the euro "number" made that way.......... very good detective work! So......I have a full choke with the "3" and a mod cyl or cyl maybe with the thread protector, either one is cool G O B: No stamp like that (410 3" magnum ) on the reciever, but the mags I got were 3 inchers. On my reciever it is stamped ".410 x 3". You may be right. Maybe the well will just load that kind, I just orderded some Barnaul 3" slugs made for the Saiga .410, with steel hulls. That's what I want to shoot anyway, primarily. My serial # starts with "94" so it may be a little earlier than your piece. location of the Barnauls, almost half way down the page: The Armory All the best, Smokes Edited January 21, 2005 by Ol'smokie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aethelbert 1 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Whoa! The Armory sounds a bit pricey -- Cheaper Than Dirt has Silver Bear .410 3" slug loads as listed below: Catalog Item #: AMM-870 Mfg Item #: ASB41S Our Low Price: $2.99 These look just like the Barnaul with their all-steel hulls. The Barnaul shells I got a while back were $2.79 per box/10 but I haven't taken the time to look up who I got them from. My Saiga is also marked "Cal .410 x 3" MAGNUM" and the mag is equally clearly marked .410 x 76 mm. The serial number prefix is "94". It has the gold-colored bead front sight and the fixed rear sight that resembles a pistol rear sight -- no rail of any kind. As I mentioned somewhere else on this forum, it shoots about 3 1/2" - 4" low at 25 yards with Barnaul but only about 2" low at that distance with Brenneke slugs. Both brands of slugs print about 2" to the right. Yup. I use 'Kentucky windage' to compensate for that. Hmm. Wonder how you say 'Kentucky windage' in Russian? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 it shoots about 3 1/2" - 4" low at 25 yards with Barnaul but only about 2" low at that distance with Brenneke slugs. Both brands of slugs print about 2" to the right. Mine does the exact same thing. I figured it must be because I don't have a rear sight. I cured that with a scope but I'm hoping the elevated front sight I ordered will get me back on with iron sights. I've got a custom idea in mind for adjustable rear sight to go with it. Come on big brown truck, come on! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aethelbert 1 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Cobra, I remember reading that some folks have been replacing the adjustable rear sight on their Saiga _rifles_ with the adjustable rear sight from the RPK. Has anyone here been able to do this with the Saiga .410? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
J A 0 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 (edited) Old smokie, Who imported your 94 Saiga? My early import Saiga 410 has a fixed rear sight with a notch in it that can be drifted to adjust windage. A AK type sight will not fit on them. The best price on Barnaul slugs is by the case at http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=148203 Barnual makes all the zinc plated steel cased 12 and 410 shotgun ammo. http://barnaulammunition.com/shotgun.htm The Barnaul 410 slugs are imported under the Silver Bear brand by http://www.gzanders.com/bearammo/ Here is a pic of the Barnaul ammo. You can see the slug,two halves of the plastic sabot,and the plastic wad. As you can see from the pic left to right No3,No1,and No0. Note 1 adn 3 are the same except for markings. A seperate certificate lists the No0 as a muzzle adapter intended for protecting the barrel thread. So I take it that 3 is full and 1 is modified? When I tried to order just a modified choke from EAA they said they were only sold by the set. So getting one $18 choke turned into a $43 deal. Edited January 21, 2005 by J A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ol'smokie 0 Posted January 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 J A: Got mine fro CDNN but it is stamped EAA, has a non-adjustable gas tube (no 1 or 2), no rear sight, just the rail, but comes with a full choke and a cyl (thread protector). Thanks for the tip on the ammo, suposedly the steel cases have Berdan primers (see Saiga 12 forum), shame to waste them............ Smokes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
J A 0 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 EAA didn't import Saiga's till 1999 so your's marked 94 is strange. Yes the Barnaul ammo is berdan primed so this is why I made these depriming tools. #1-is a cut off case used to get measurements for the tools. #2-is a base to set the cases in with a hole in the middle so the primers have somewhere to go when knocked out. #3- is the depriming tool. #4-is for straighting the case mouths back to round. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Nice lookin set of machinery... how well do they work when the case is all bent to piss??? My .410 crimps the HELL out of the one edge of the case upon extraction... are they easy to reload once ya get em deprimed?? what do you use to crimp the ends back closed? will a standard roll crimper do the trick? or do you have some other method that gets the tops back to the right curve shape to feed right??? I know we had to round over the factory barnauls when we got a case in... some wouldnt QUITE feed well.... I may have to start "picking up my brass" when I shoot barnauls at the range, and hunting.... and see what I can do to emulate your tricks.... Very nice indeed!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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