Verifying Tromix Conversion

[Galath 0]

I have a recently purchased Saiga 12 that was advertised as a Tromix conversion. I paid a premium to avoid the 18 month wait. Is there any way I can verify that the conversion was, indeed, done by Tromix and not just someone slapping Tromix parts on the weapon? Does Tromix keep records of the serial numbers of the weapons they convert?

 

Thanks,

Galath

[Juggernaut 11,054]

where did you buy it?

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Yes, I have the S/N's but they are not in order, so it would take a pile of time to search through them all.

Here are a couple of things to look for.

 

1. Your gun must have a Tromix HK style trigger guard welded in place.

2. The pistol grip does not use a square hole cut in the receiver. There is a threaded rod welded to the receiver to hang the grip. There were a handful of guns, maybe 5 or so, with the square hole, but then the square nut would have been welded in place (externally) in order to make grip installation easier.

3. No Tromix guns were ever made with an external safety stop like the factory unit. Very early guns, just had a dimple detent. Later guns had a welded in nipple on the side of the receiver to stop the safety selector.

4. All guns have a welded in back plate which has threaded inserts to bolt on the stock. No guns were made with the ACE adapter block to hold the stock.

5. If the gun is equipped with HK sights, you can remove the rear sight and look at the welds inside. The rear mount is affixed via Tig welding front and back on the inside. If it looks like a Mig weld or the welds are in a different location, it is not a Tromix installed sight base.

 

Obviously, I can't remember S/N's, but I do remember customer names VERY well. Shoot me an e-mail with the guys name and if it's legit, chances are I will remember his name.

 

Tony

[Galath 0]

Yes, I have the S/N's but they are not in order, so it would take a pile of time to search through them all.

Here are a couple of things to look for.

 

1. Your gun must have a Tromix HK style trigger guard welded in place.

2. The pistol grip does not use a square hole cut in the receiver. There is a threaded rod welded to the receiver to hang the grip. There were a handful of guns, maybe 5 or so, with the square hole, but then the square nut would have been welded in place (externally) in order to make grip installation easier.

3. No Tromix guns were ever made with an external safety stop like the factory unit. Very early guns, just had a dimple detent. Later guns had a welded in nipple on the side of the receiver to stop the safety selector.

4. All guns have a welded in back plate which has threaded inserts to bolt on the stock. No guns were made with the ACE adapter block to hold the stock.

5. If the gun is equipped with HK sights, you can remove the rear sight and look at the welds inside. The rear mount is affixed via Tig welding front and back on the inside. If it looks like a Mig weld or the welds are in a different location, it is not a Tromix installed sight base.

 

Obviously, I can't remember S/N's, but I do remember customer names VERY well. Shoot me an e-mail with the guys name and if it's legit, chances are I will remember his name.

 

Tony

 

I'll get an email off to you today. To answer the previous poster, I purchased it off of GunBroker. There are a few problems that lead me to believe it's not true Tromix work. Not sure what recourse I would have. Still love the gun, but I may need to change a few things on it.

 

*edit* Here's the gunbroker listing: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=111476474

 

*edit 2* PM sent to Tony with name and issues.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Galath

[Juggernaut 11,054]

hmmm... fishy..

Saiga-12, converted by tromix. Folding stock, shark brake, quad rail fourend, 10 round magazine, saw grip, reliability treatment and dura cote finish on everything. Only test fired after conversion.

 

Tony.. you use Moly not dura, right?

 

Reliability treatment????

[Juggernaut 11,054]

also looks like it may have an external block for the ACE folder.....

and no Tromix trigger guard....

[BobAsh 582]

Not a Tromix. Has factory trigger guard

[Galath 0]

Just to clear things up:

 

1) Through PM, Tony informed me that it is one of his guns, and the last he did with the HALO rails. Lots of people don't like them.

2) I do like them, I just don't like the disassembly process, may be in the market for a new foregrip.

3) The seller did an amazing job with packaging and processing the sale. My feedback for him stands, I just wanted to be sure. Please don't hold this against him on gunbroker.

4) The folding stock has a wierd issue with the retaining pin that I am trying to work out a fix for. I may be replacing it.

 

Thank you all for your help.

 

-Galath

[TonyRumore 1,332]

No, there was some confusion on my part in regards to this particular seller.

That PARTICULAR gun is not a Tromix unit.

 

Tony

[BobAsh 582]

...

Edited November 25, 2008 by BobAsh

[Galath 0]

Ok, according to Tony, it is not one of his guns. He recognized the name, but he still has that gun for conversion. The saga continues....

[Galath 0]

Ok, I just sent an email to the seller. I'm a little ticked, as you can imagine. I spent a lot of money for the gun, because I didn't want to wait for it (-1 to me), but I expected another gun enthusiast to be straight with me. To tell the truth, I'm kinda sick to my stomach. I really wanted a Tromix conversion, and I was afraid of the coming ban. Not sure why I'm posting this, but it really pisses me off. From now on, ban or no ban, I'm going to the smith of my choice and crossing my fingers.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Not that it helps any here, but I just sent an e-mail to the Tromix Web Master and told him to add a new section to the Tromix website. "How to identify the real deal from a FAKE"

Hopefully that will help some guys in the future.

 

Tony

[HarvKY 72]

Not that it helps any here, but I just sent an e-mail to the Tromix Web Master and told him to add a new section to the Tromix website. "How to identify the real deal from a FAKE"

Hopefully that will help some guys in the future.

 

Tony

 

 

Great idea Tony

 

Being the guru of these babies Im sure you get a ton of people trading off your name & work.

 

Cheers, HarvKY

 

 

 

P.S. just looked at the GB listing. I think most folks who have spent much time online and/or looked at Tromix conversions would be suspiscious of that due to the TG.

Edited November 25, 2008 by HarvKY

[BobAsh 582]

You should be pissed. It's a blatant misrepresentation of a knockoff as genuine, and you should have your money back IMO.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Not that it helps any here, but I just sent an e-mail to the Tromix Web Master and told him to add a new section to the Tromix website. "How to identify the real deal from a FAKE"

Hopefully that will help some guys in the future.

 

Tony

 

 

when it pops up on your site, I think I'll sticky it in your section here as well... Cool?

[TonyRumore 1,332]

That's fine.

 

Tony

[Etnomaiab 0]

hmmm... fishy..

Saiga-12, converted by tromix. Folding stock, shark brake, quad rail fourend, 10 round magazine, saw grip, reliability treatment and dura cote finish on everything. Only test fired after conversion.

 

Tony.. you use Moly not dura, right?

 

Reliability treatment????

 

 

Alliance Armament? Didn't they used to charge for some "reliability treatment" to make the guns work with their shitty drums?

 

Like here:

AA

[GPalmer 1]

I've had both good and bad experiences buying used guns on the net. To me it just isn't worth it anymore unless it's a hard to get item like this Tromix. Sorry to hear that you got burned on this one, hopefully the guy makes it right.

[Azrial 1,091]

I just looked at the ad and it is, in my opinion, a complete deception. I would give the seller a chance to make up the difference or do a complete refund, then go to war if they refuse.

 

I would also copy the Ad before GunBroker takes it down, for possible use in litigation. If it was me, if negotiations failed, I would start with criminal prosecution and then work my way over to a civil suit.

 

The same thing happens with DSA, Shelby, and any other big name custom builder. You are paying for a name, and that name is a guarantee of quality and in this case a warranty.

 

It may be a nice gun, but "I" would not let this stand.

 

Good luck with what ever you decide to do!

[Galath 0]

I appreciate the support. I wish I had known of this forum when I was buying, I could have asked before bidding. I should have made an effort to ID the weapon, maybe through the Tromix website.

 

Hopefully the guy will respond and we can work something out.

[Wakko 10]

TAG for outcome.

[Galath 0]

Here's the reply to my email:

 

Not sure how to deal with your complaint *Galath. I bought the gun at a gun show and they informed me that it was a tromix conversion. I did not realize anyone else even did them besides Tony and Elite Fire arms. The folding stock is definitely Tony's because I bought that part from him and have receipt. I do have three guns with Tony, but none of them have anything to do with the auction at all. The gun you bought was the one pictured, and also was sold as is. Give me a call tomorrow and we can try and talk it out, I don't want you to feel as though I intentionally misrepresented the gun or mislead you in any way. I was a great looking gun either way and a great price. If you still want to return the gun, I will take it but w/ 10% fee and an inspection period since you've shot it.

 

* Name changed

 

I want to believe the guy, especially since he seemed up front and included items not listed in the auction. I would not have paid as much if I'd known it wasn't a Tromix gun, though. I would have let the auction go without bidding higher. I'm a bit on the fence. I'll probably keep the gun, but the next one will go through Tony no matter what I see on GB and how long the wait is. Now I just have to figure out how to get the one I have straightened out.

[Azrial 1,091]

No matter if he "intentionally misrepresented the gun or mislead you in any way" or not the gun was not as represented. If you are happy with it fine, if not there is no way you owe him 10% for his deceit/mistake.

 

The defense of I was too stupid to think that anyone in the world did these conversions except "Tony and Elite Fire arms." would not hold much water in a legal case, in my opinion. I guess since he is very acquainted with Tromix he could have taken the time to ask Tony if the gun was of his manufacture before selling it as such on Gunbroker.

 

Sorry, but this has hit a sour point with me, too many years on eBay and Gunbroker and too many sellers like this.

 

Again, good luck and I think that you have been an incredible gentleman in the matter!

[hbsseller 3]

Sold "as is" is a completely different issue than misrepresented, whether intentional or non-intentional. "As is" refers to condition. If the guy won't be fair with you, I would put in a small claims suit in your local court. Probably costs $25, no attorney, and if he does not want to make right he will have to have the time and cost of travelling to your local area. I hate people that sue, but in this case I really think his response was just unfair. If you are going to sell and collect money, you have some moral responsibility to stand by your representations. I'll stop preaching, but this kind of stuff pisses me off.

[Galath 0]

Sorry it took so long to get back on this. I just kept the gun, will try to get on the wait list in 2011 to have the gun fixed up. Thanks everyone for your response.