Rivet or Screw build ???

[whitetrashrn 74]

Can anyone post the pros and the cons of screw build vs rivet build. My first 2 kits had to be done with screws. I built all the poor mans rivet tools but can never get them right. On most of the posts it is stated that if you did a screw kit the rivet kit would be a breeze. I would like to get a couple pointers of riveting and making them look good. Sending to someone to do this may be an option also. I am going put a receiver on my "G' Kit next week and finish that one and then a new start on an AMD 65 short barrel hoping to rivet this nice.. I hope you builders can point me in the right direction to finish a receiver properly. Thanks for my blabblaBBLAB.

[flclisgreat 0]

Can anyone post the pros and the cons of screw build vs rivet build. My first 2 kits had to be done with screws. I built all the poor mans rivet tools but can never get them right. On most of the posts it is stated that if you did a screw kit the rivet kit would be a breeze. I would like to get a couple pointers of riveting and making them look good. Sending to someone to do this may be an option also. I am going put a receiver on my "G' Kit next week and finish that one and then a new start on an AMD 65 short barrel hoping to rivet this nice.. I hope you builders can point me in the right direction to finish a receiver properly. Thanks for my blabblaBBLAB.

 

 

screw builds will eventually fail. the receiver/trunions will oval out.

[Pointer55 1]

Screw builds done right will last as long as rivet builds done right, Period.

[nalioth 405]

As has been answered previously, a Saiga conversion is not a "build".

[Red Fly 0]

Read over the attached article on riveting. I can't recall the actual source but it was what convinced me that I could rivet my Saiga.

How_to_install_AK_47_Receiver_Rivets.pdf

[mstranglr 9]

If you are building an AK from a parts kit (not a Saiga conversion), I highly recommend that you rivet everything; I have seen a trunion screw fail. Rivets will always hold better, and if you have the tools, are much faster than a screw build.

 

If you are simply converting a Saiga to pistol grip configuration, screws to hold the trigger guard in place will do fine.

[netpackrat 566]

Rivet. A solid rivet will always be a tighter fit than a threaded fastener, because it expands to fill the hole as it is driven, so there is NO slop, and since it applies a consistent force around the circumference, it can help prevent cracking starting from the hole. A threaded fastener is a whole lot more dependent on the initial fit of the fastener and hole, and the fastener actually decreases in diameter slightly as it stretches when placed under tension.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Netpackrat

[Azrial 1,091]

While it is debatable whether a screw can be used to replace a rivet on a AK build. Anyone that says a revet is as strong as a screw does not understand how the fasteners work. They each have there correct past practice application, and when you substitute one for the other, you are asking for problems!

[netpackrat 566]

While it is debatable whether a screw can be used to replace a rivet on a AK build. Anyone that says a revet is as strong as a screw does not understand how the fasteners work. They each have there correct past practice application, and when you substitute one for the other, you are asking for problems!

 

It isn't a matter of strength; both rivets and screws are STRONG enough, hell, one of the admins on another AK forum that I follow assembled and fired an AK using wood dowels to hold the trunnion to the receiver, and it didn't fall apart (I don't think he subjected it to any sustained fire). He did it just to prove the point that the need for pure strength in this area is overblown, since the firing pressures are fully contained by the bolt in the trunnion. The problem with screws is twofold, first if the fit between the screw shank and the receiver is anything less than perfect, slop will develop, and it will only get worse as the rifle is fired and subjected to recoil forces. Second, while a properly bucked solid rivet will never back out, screws can loosen over time, which will lead inevitably to the first problem. Both of those issues can be mitigated through careful fitting and use of thread locker, but a correctly driven rivet will never develop those problems. The AKM was designed to be assembled with rivets because they are a more reliable way of joining parts to thin sheet, and the rivet heads just plain look better. A screw built AK will always bring a lower value than a riveted one if you choose to sell it later.

 

Furthermore, a screw build isn't really any easier than a rivet build. People are drawn to them because the don't want to remove the barrel, but getting ALL of the bits of old rivet out and tapping the holes correctly is more of a pain than just pulling the barrel and reinstalling it after driving rivets. Plus, you run the risk of drilling too far and fucking up the barrel. I have an AMD-65 kit that I got a good price on, because somebody did just that; they drilled into the barrel trying to get the original rivets out. I bought it anyway because I am going to build it with a 9mm barrel and modify the receiver to accept 71 round Suomi drums, so I don't care about the original barrel. Pulling the barrel is easy, if you don't have a press, you can get a steering arm puller at Autozone, which people have had good results with. There are various ways of reinstalling it, from elaborate jigs to big bar clamps; I just put a muzzle nut on the barrel and pound it in with a big lead hammer that I cast in a soda can. The hardest part of the whole operation is getting the stinking barrel pin out.

 

All that having been said, I do agree that for just relocating the trigger guard on a Saiga conversion, threaded fasteners should be plenty adequate. I riveted it at the rear, and welded it at the front, but that's just me.

[Azrial 1,091]

[whitetrashrn 74]

Thank you all for your comments. While this was being debated, I sucessfully riveted an Amd 65 receiver. I followed any instruction that was given online and every thing worked out well. I will post pics when I get back to it. Thanks again.